24bit MPC 4000 versus 16bit (everything else)...

Hello all,

First Post!

I've never owned an MPC, but have used one in school.

When looking at the MPC comparsion sheet, the one thing that peaks my interest most, besides the 80gig hard drive, is the ability to compose at 24bits.

But a few related questions are:

1. how available are sample sets recorded at 24bit?
2. For those MPC users that don't have the 4000 and are limited to 16bit, how do you accomodate the 16bit samples into your 24bit productions? (i.e., what is your work flow)?
3. Has anyone polled this forum for the best price source for the 4000?

Thanks in advance for your comments!

H3

2. For those MPC users that don't have the 4000 and are limited to 16bit, how do you accomodate the 16bit samples into your 24bit productions? (i.e., what is your work flow)?

I would like to stay in the digital domain, meaning I would be using the digital out(s) (adat or spdif) to input into my DAW.

Thanks!

H3.

if you used digital outs on a 16 bit sample into a 24 bit session in a DAW you'd end up with some pretty funky sounds. As far as accomodating 16 bit samples into 24 bit sessions you'd have to use some kind of software to dither assuming that the mpc doesn't do it for you automatically. Or just import them straight in, who knows it might sound cool.

The thing is, if you're making hip-hop which 90% of mpc owners do, dynamic range isn't really an issue since by the end of the day your shit will be so compressed that dynamic range won't matter. Plus 24 bit takes up a lot more space than 16. It's an exponentially larger amount of bits.

Anyway you'll never be able to tell the difference between 16 bit and 24 bit. The 4000 ONLY uses 24 bits? Just stick with 16 if you can.

Also you know where people got their sounds before the internet? Records, synthesizers (there are drum synths as well which let you make your own original drum sounds), TV, VCR basically anything that make sounds and has an output which you can plug into is yours. Be creative.

you cant tell if you dont measure, 24bit gives far more headroom which explains why the 4k sound so loud ( that and converters will increase snr ). That the reason you want to record at 24bit because you will have the option to record a bigger signal than you could record with 16bit.

and it really doesn't matter since on the 4k you can set the bit rate to different settings. If you want 16bit change it.

formantix wrote:you cant tell if you dont measure, 24bit gives far more headroom which explains why the 4k sound so loud ( that and converters will increase snr ). That the reason you want to record at 24bit because you will have the option to record a bigger signal than you could record with 16bit.

RIGHT!

And that is one main reason that I am leaning towards the MPC 4000.

Sample at 24bit, Record at 24bit, all while staying away from D/A Converters!

Next Question: How accurate/precise is the MPC 4000 Clock (for Master Clock of entire Studio (DAW, Keyboards, etc.)??

I will post this question in the MPC 4000 forum.

H3

formantix wrote:you cant tell if you dont measure, 24bit gives far more headroom which explains why the 4k sound so loud ( that and converters will increase snr ). That the reason you want to record at 24bit because you will have the option to record a bigger signal than you could record with 16bit.

That's the dumbest reason I've ever heard. So you can record a louder sound? You realize that at the end of the day your sound will be converted to 16 bit and the added dynamic range of 24 bit will mean nothing.

Formantix I DARE you to make a beat in 24 bit and then do the same beat in 16 bit, dither the 24 down and put them both on a cd. There won't be any difference. A measurement is meaningless. How you percieve sound is ultimately how it is judged regardless of it being 16 bit, 24 bit, 44.1Khz Or 192Khz.

Who cares if you have more range with 24 bit when ultimately it WILL be 16? If you really think that your music will be louder because you did it at 24 bit you are a fool indeed and you should stop poluting the internet with your misinformation. Save yourself the harddrive space and stop lying to yourself.

engineer wrote:

formantix wrote:you cant tell if you dont measure, 24bit gives far more headroom which explains why the 4k sound so loud ( that and converters will increase snr ). That the reason you want to record at 24bit because you will have the option to record a bigger signal than you could record with 16bit.

That's the dumbest reason I've ever heard. So you can record a louder sound? You realize that at the end of the day your sound will be converted to 16 bit and the added dynamic range of 24 bit will mean nothing.

Formantix I DARE you to make a beat in 24 bit and then do the same beat in 16 bit, dither the 24 down and put them both on a cd. There won't be any difference. A measurement is meaningless. How you percieve sound is ultimately how it is judged regardless of it being 16 bit, 24 bit, 44.1Khz Or 192Khz.

Who cares if you have more range with 24 bit when ultimately it WILL be 16? If you really think that your music will be louder because you did it at 24 bit you are a fool indeed and you should stop poluting the internet with your misinformation. Save yourself the harddrive space and stop lying to yourself.

you have got to be kidding!!!

first off 24/96 Akai sounds slamming!!

secondly, many will tell you: you wont ever need more than 16bit for your drums" .... these are cats that have never heard drums at 24/96!

They sound BIG man, adds depth allaround, its warmer, fuller, lower puncier and the highs have a sparkel that Ive not heard come out of any other sampler..

Dont belive me, rent one set it to 24/96 and take out some vinyl and prove my ponit..

24bit in 16 bit inviroment..well the other day I had a snare pumping 3layers but not giving me that snap I was after, I layerd it with a 24/96 and like batman on a tricycal instant punch! with the a fresh breath of highs, I love how it sounds and the 4k has no problem working with 16bit samples in 24bit mode
..the session was all in 16bit btw (a remix)

as far as what thet dude was saying about anything over 16bit is stupid, well he was kidding right! 8)

i got a question to ask! Dont call it stupid just call it tring to see both point of views. Whats the diference if i can get a hold of 24 bit samples and do all my edits on the computer and then convert them to 16 bit and make a beat an you as a producer just taking 24 bit samples and making a beat and then later converting the whole track to 16 bit.

well with this logic whats stopping you from just using 8bit samples and just converting them to 16bit later on when the track is finnished? the higher the bit and sampler rate you use the more solid yours 16bit track will be in finnal production.

AWW_NAWW wrote:well with this logic whats stopping you from just using 8bit samples and just converting them to 16bit later on when the track is finnished? the higher the bit and sampler rate you use the more solid yours 16bit track will be in finnal production.

I dont follow you on this concept. Only cause in i ask about taking a higher bit sample and convert it down first before i used the sample while one person might just use the sample at 24 bit and just mix down later to 16 bit. dj premier tracks will never sound the sample he used was converted down and then back up. What im talking about is we both using the same sample and over all converting down but at different times. so maybe you could come a little better than how you did cause even you know that holds no weight

Sample a 4 second loop of a high quality stereo piano using 16bit.
Sample THE SAME 4 second loop of a high quality stereo piano using 24bit.

Now, use any converter you want and take the 24bit version down to 16bit.

You WILL hear a difference.

"I DARE you to make a beat in 24 bit and then do the same beat in 16 bit, dither the 24 down and put them both on a cd. There won't be any difference.

IMO, that my friend is not even close to correct from experiements that I've done and other people that I've known to do it (when I've been in there studio and they've done the same tests for themselves on their gear).

lamp maybe im saying this all wrong. Im just saying if i sample something at 24 bit on my computer then convert it to 16 and transfer it to a 16 bit sampler and you take the same sample and sample it into the 4k and then at the end of the day with the sample be close to each other once put on a cd cause everything is gona be 16 bit. Im not saying there isnt a differnce with 16 and 24 bit.

You just said the same thing I said basically, lol.