Forum to discuss all matters relating to the MPC1000 and MPC2500 operating systems created by 'JJ' (all versions).
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By Harmoncj Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:21 pm
I haven't read the whole thread, but I wanted to say this is a really cool effect!! I can't get it in real time, but I can get it using MPC2000 step edit to sequence pitch bender values for phrases triggered from a separate sampler. It is very cool thanks for pointing out that distinction!
By Jamon Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:10 pm
Good to hear. It might not be as fun as playing live, but using step edit does work to give the effect.

The Octatrack does seem to have that realtime capability. It calls sample events "trigs". There are trig modes for triggering samples like the MPC does (like one-shot), but there's also a "trigless trig", where you play an event without the sample retriggering.

Octatrack manual wrote:When in TRACKS mode or CHROMATIC mode, trigless trigs, instead of sample trigs, can be recorded if [FUNCTION] is held while pressing the [TRIG] keys. This is useful if you, for instance, want to use the CHROMATIC mode to live record pitch changes to a sample, but don’t want the sample to restart on every pitch change.


There seems to be other stuff I wish JJOS had, like record quantization, where you can record synced with the pattern length. Maybe JJ needs an Octatrack to get some ideas.
By Jamon Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:42 pm
You're right, the Octatrack does seem quirky. From what I'm reading, it seems like although you can trigger the pitch change in steps without retriggering the sample, it's not very musical, because apparently it doesn't record the length of time you hold it down. If that's true, then it just triggers a pitch change, like you can do with JJOS patterns and pitch bend events when you have a MIDI out plugged into MIDI in. The legato instrument would actually let you play it as normal, where your note duration and velocity count.

Also, I don't think I mentioned before, but the CC events for setting the pitch bend range didn't work. I'll try again, but this did nothing:

Time, CC, value
------------------
0, 101, 0
2, 100, 0
4, 6, 1
6, 101, 127
pitch bend 8191

According to the manual and MIDI spec, that should set the pitch bend range to 1 for the receiving track, then max the bend. It maxed the bend, but using the global setting. I experimented a little and the control sequence didn't seem to change the pitch bend range, even though the MIDI monitor showed it was received.

If I try again and it still doesn't work, someone else should try and if they can't get it to then it could be a bug.
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By consuming Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:21 am
I've tested it; the function works as JJ describes. It appears to only work when the CC sequence is inserted into a track, not in real-time when receiving it via MIDI or pattern. No loss though, the PB to pattern pad works just fine. +/-8191 is plenty of resolution.

Additionally, this legato function does not require multitimbral mode or MIDI cable loop as previously mentioned.
By Jamon Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:24 am
Maybe what wasn't working before was when I tried it in patterns, because I just tried it again and it did work as events in the same track, but once I converted it to a pattern it no longer does anything.

What'd you do exactly?

I went to grid edit for track 1, and added:

101, 0
100, 0
6, X
101, 127
pitch bend, 8191

Where X is 0, then copied the track 12 times, going through each one and changing X to be X+1. All events are at 001.01.00 because I found they worked in the track all at the same time, but in order, despite the manual showing .02 between them.

Then I went to track 1, [MODE] + F4 (toPatrn)
START END BARS
1, 1, 1

F5 (DO IT), [MAIN], F4 (TR +)
Repeating for each track.

Then went to a new track, set the sample to a pad, recorded it triggering a one-shot event, assigned the patterns to pads like:

A01:PTRN:C -- +00 ONE

Pressed play, heard the sound, pressed pads, no change.

The pattern bank shows CC101 and BEND in the OTHER box.

See any obvious differences?
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By consuming Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:08 pm
The PB isn't being triggered by the Pad Pattern or the PB sensitivity isn't being set by the event?

It looks like you're trying to set PB sens with patterns, and I don't think that will work. Limit the pattern to bending only.
By foodeater Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:08 pm
bliprock wrote:
foodeater wrote:If you really want to work your samples in a synth like manner though, and don't want to use a computer, pick up one of the later model Ensoniq or EMU rack samplers. They are very deep with the modulation and while I'd love if the best of both came to JJOS it's not very likely or feasible.
This is not the answer. I do not think another bit of equipment would be as good as just learning JJOS.
JJOSXL instrument programs are very powerful if you learn to use them. If I can figure out what exactly OP is trying to do then I could probably help.
Velocity to LFO is not really an answer either. Obviously you mean to pitch right? We are talking about pitching a single sample like a multisample instrument. LFO will change pitch but not like multsample instrument at all. Unless you set it to bend up or down to the pitch wanted and this is not a work around here. More like a nightmare.

I was speaking about generally breathing life into static samples.

It's all good thinking of new and creative ways to work within the MPC's limitations and coming up with unexpected techniques as a result of that and I'm really not sure if the OP was a technique sharing post, a feature request post, or a "how do I?" post.

I think internal MIDI routing would be helpful, but feature requests for things you can do beter in other very cheap samplers that are available now seems unrealistic. More than that, JJOS doesn't need to be the homer car with every single feature crammed in! :lol: We aren't going to get better time stretching because 1) these are proprietary algorithms and it'd have to licensed ($$$$) and 2) the CPU is not up to the task.

Also, I own an Octatrack, it doesn't allow you to pitch samples across the whole key range. While extremely creative and my favorite bit of kit it's not going to be do everything device either.

If you want one box that does everything, get a computer and buy software. Start by learning NI Kontakt and scripting.
By Jamon Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:48 pm
... a technique sharing post, a feature request post, or a "how do I?" post.

How about, all of the above?

Yeah, I was hoping to set the pitch bend range along with the pitch bend. Otherwise, you have to set absolute pitch bend values, which depend on the global setting being what's expected. It's not a big deal, just seemed like a cleaner approach, since you could then share the pattern bank and it'd just work.

But it's okay, I'll just play with the absolute values, and try some things like adding level fades to see if an ADSR type instrument can be emulated.
By Jamon Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:27 am
You can download the pattern bank and pad mode assigns for legato pattern pitch bends:
http://jjos.net/files/legato.zip

Load them up, and move the cursor in the main screen to the "PTRN" field, hit [WINDOW], press F2 (ON/OFF) to turn off the legato assignments, set a sample on a pad and record it to play in the track, then go back to turn them on, press play, and now you can go up or down an octave, where pad 13 is the root.

Here's how to create them yourself:

1. On track 1 increase bars to 25 and go to step edit.
2. Insert a pitch bend event at 001.01.00.
3. Use your BAR key to switch to the next bar, hit F5 twice, and repeat 24 times.
4. Go down the list setting the values.
5. Go to [MAIN], [MODE] + F4 (toPatrn), and set START to 1, END to 1, BARS to 1.
6. Now you can go down the list of END and simply do a [DATA] +, repeating 24 times, in chunks of 10.
7. F5 (DO IT) makes all your patterns, and you should have 2 octaves now.
8. Assign them to a pad mode assign set.

For the pitch bend values, someone should verify this is correct, but here's the values I calculated:

-8192
-7509
-6827
-6144
-5461
-4779
-4096
-3413
-2731
-2048
-1365
-683
0
683
1365
2048
2730
3413
4096
4778
5461
6143
6826
7508
8191

I used a tuner to test a C piano sample being bent with those values, and it was in tune, so if they're wrong it's not by much.
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By Coz Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:03 am
^ Fair play to you.

Your dedication to this feature is putting the 'aficionados' and 'experts' to shame. :wink:
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By bliprock Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:49 am
It is not uncommon for me to have different ranges for different instruments pitch bend wise. Also you are limited to only a small range octave wise.
I use simult pad for certain parts of the sound that you do not want to be affected by the pitch shift you get from making chromatic scale....
For instance say string scrape, or hammer on noise. So this means every pad say on the first bank will play in chromatic pitch but also just one simult pad as well, say 16 or on another bank. This unpitched element of your sound can be then key split to. So for instance I make bottom octave C1 to C2 have a lower pitched hammer noise or string noise, but it is only for that octave as I set it up to simult all those first 12 pads in the octave to simult the same pad, that is not pitched, with the hammer noise, string scrape whatever. Then repeat this but with another different simult pad sound/sample for a second octave up or down for realism. This is a manual way to do it of course.
See the problem is this does not work in mono program, in poly mode makes it harder as you have to actually sequence it that way, legato wise. But if you want unpitched sounds as part of pitched instrument then thats a good and easy way to do it I think, the simult pad trick. But it also means you can have sample play but with added attack sounds, then no attack sounds when you change to another pitch. makes sense?? so it is like sample does not restart but it does, when going to another pitch. but only here the attack sound when you want, say by using velocity switching layers ect.
So this makes me think that it would be a new request for the two settings to work in tandem and not one or the other when it comes to mute and simult pads. Because instead of instrument I do above method, its a shame it does not work in mono mode for that legato feel right. Why not though, i mean if you set it up right then it would be way cool, to simult pads but they also mute target/group. So I set all to same mute group except the unpitched simult pad and it will play like mono but also simult pad at same time, which is poly mode, giving you legatoish feel. That would be an interesting request i think. and would facilitate mutisample instrument creation a lot better. not for portamento though, that would need instrument program.
this would be really good to, as with the velocity layer switching to, say for harder sounds add another layer. that is what i do, so it sounds like a harder sound with added layer over a certain velocity being triggered.. its been something like a year since i thought shame these do not work in tandem the simult and mutes in program.
:roll: I never used the simult play and velocity switching the other way though till just now so thanks for that. So instead of velocity switching the layers of first pad hat I hit, I do it just to the pad that is the simult play one. thats great. but for that legato you need mute and simult. I do not mean changing pitch by velocity layer though as you can do that to.
Do you think that would be closer to it? it means you can even chop and loop the sounds for instrument, simult pad has attack, then other pads have the rest of the instrument sound, even looped so it goes for ever if held. that is what i do i use loop then hit both at same time to stop and start a differnt pitch. that is my work round for simult and mute groups not working together in harmony.
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By Harmoncj Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:08 pm
Jamon wrote:For the pitch bend values, someone should verify this is correct, but here's the values I calculated:

-8192
-7509
-6827
-6144
-5461
-4779
-4096
-3413
-2731
-2048
-1365
-683
0
683
1365
2048
2730
3413
4096
4778
5461
6143
6826
7508
8191

I used a tuner to test a C piano sample being bent with those values, and it was in tune, so if they're wrong it's not by much.

I used most the same numbers give or take a few values, rounding up or down didnt seem to make a huge difference. So I was able to follow the pitch bender'd sequence with some normally tuned samples and it was unison.
By roxstar Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:15 am
I think the explanation is way too drawn out and confusing. The VP-9000 video clarifies what your looking for. Its a nice piece of gear that can clearly do things that most samplers can't. Just buy what you need to get the job done. If you have to go through all that rigamarole, is it really worth it?...especially when you can buy a VP-9000 and twist a knob?
But I understand where your coming from 100%. Nothing wrong with being experimental and there is a lot you can make the MPC do that isn't documented in the manual. The VP-9000 is old technology now. I'm no software guru, but I believe most of the VP's functions do can be done with Melodyne. There maybe other software out there, but I wouldn't know about them.