Top 5 Dead or Alive: JJ OS Feature Edition

here's my take on this, JAH - i say give it some time.

my standpoint is this, and i think some others here may agree -

i really do wish well for AKAI and their new line, as long as they support them. actively.
if i were to purchase REN and found a bug, i would expect it to be fixed within the week.
i would look forward to an update containing new features within the month.

in this case, by god, i'm on board. show me where to sign.

now the kicker is this. if AKAI supports their new line the way they supported their previous MPCs, as matter of integrity, i would not want to help them.

i want to buy an evolving system, not an App.

anyway! i say there's no rush. let's see what they do.

distortedtekno wrote:But we need to be persistent in the most constructive way possible in order to be assured they are doing what they can to resolve all the issues with the current models on the market. As much as they're focused on the Ren, they still need to take care of existing issues, and this seems like the best time to communicate with them while they're here communicating with us.

When people were asking about an OS update for the 5k, Dan mentioned the fact that none of the original coders even work for Akai anymore, so it will take time for the current employees to get familiar with their own code. I wouldn't hold out for any further enhancements/bug fixes of the 'current' line to be honest.

JAH wrote:I am willing to do what ever I can. I think a petition thread here in the forums would have a bigger effect. We can write a letter to JJ and even have it translated in Japanese to post in a petition thread. Forum members can post in the petition thread if they are in favor of such support.

And I won't put anyone on the spot because everyone knows the forum members that are the biggest supporters of the JJ OS....but we need to get these guys involved.

Definitely glad to work together Jah. A petition thread may help. But before we do that, I'm considering discussing everything in this topic in order to gather all the info needed to make a solid list of reason as to how it will become beneficial to JJ as well as the rest of us who may be interested.

@ mp3 - Yeah I see your point and I understand where you're coming from as well. I can still make music with Reason 6 and be just as happy. But I see an opportunity to be able to help make some products improve as well as the opportunity to help make a company like Akai see the value of fixing some mistakes, improving on new products, and continuing to re-establish a rapport with their customer base. So if we accomplish more than just getting a pad fix for the 1000, the better off the customer is, and the better off Akai is for taking some vital needs into consideration. Can't hurt to make suggestions when the opportunities exist.

Coz wrote:

distortedtekno wrote:But we need to be persistent in the most constructive way possible in order to be assured they are doing what they can to resolve all the issues with the current models on the market. As much as they're focused on the Ren, they still need to take care of existing issues, and this seems like the best time to communicate with them while they're here communicating with us.

When people were asking about an OS update for the 5k, Dan mentioned the fact that none of the original coders even work for Akai anymore, so it will take time for the current employees to get familiar with their own code. I wouldn't hold out for any further enhancements/bug fixes of the 'current' line to be honest.

Yeah I'm aware of that and that was definitely disappointing to find that out. However, I'm also looking at Akai to continue making improvements on their components and quality control. Those areas need addressing as well for certain components on specific models. So every little bit counts. We all know Roger Linn, Dave Smith, Moog, and similar companies take quality control with high regard. So I'm hoping Akai will be more proactive as well in this respect. Let's keep our fingers crossed for the future of the 5000, because that's one hell of an MPC I'd love to have if the OS gets updated. Having a synth inside of an MPC really makes me like the 5000 a lot. But without a good OS, I wouldn't wanna venture there at all.

Nym wrote:here's my take on this, JAH - i say give it some time.

my standpoint is this, and i think some others here may agree -

i really do wish well for AKAI and their new line, as long as they support them. actively.
if i were to purchase REN and found a bug, i would expect it to be fixed within the week.
i would look forward to an update containing new features within the month.

in this case, by god, i'm on board. show me where to sign.

now the kicker is this. if AKAI supports their new line the way they supported their previous MPCs, as matter of integrity, i would not want to help them.

i want to buy an evolving system, not an App.

anyway! i say there's no rush. let's see what they do.

big cosign right there nym. good to see you have an interest and be able to see you make some suggestions in your previous reply as well. those suggestions/feature requests would definitely be good to have in the ren.

my feeling is there is already a Ren forum set up here, so i really would rather any Ren-related discussion take place there. this forum is for discussion of the JJ OS.

just as i personally don't want to waste my time worrying about the Ren as i have no interest in it, I would hate to see JJ spend 1 second of his time on anything Ren-related. trying to get the JJ OS compatible with the Ren (which I've already detailed exactly how impossible that would be earlier in this thread) would mean JJ would have to take time away from bugfixing and introducing new features in the OS. it would also mean the possible addition of NEW bugs into the OS as JJ would have to be making a number of changes to get projects compatible with the Ren. it could mean a whole mess of new conflicts, or slowing down the CPU, or who knows what else.

if people want to hype the Ren, great. do it in the Ren forum. if he wants to set up some petition for JJ, great. do it in the Ren forum.

From what I have seen, Akai is going above and beyond what they have ever done before...and this goes back to the original Japanese Akai (who also has an issue wiith their product lead). They toured the world and got feedback from producers, they visited the forums and communicated directly with members (to include members that have openly ranted about all things Akai), they are reportedly implementing ideas from these communications (better bads, better buttons, additional feature requests), etc. I don't see anything more they could do but to put up videos and tutorials of their products.

Sooty, I'm not looking for JJ to add features to make it compatible with the Ren. I'm looking to see what can be done about JJ being able to share details with Akai for whatever type of arrangement they can agree upon. All the JJ OS compatibility is something Akai would be sorting out themselves in the Ren software. I'm not looking for 2-way compatibility between units... just a way to keep working on the JJ OS and having a few key features in the Ren so that I can finish all my work there. I'd say that's not much of a task for Akai and JJ to work out. 2-way compatibility is a whole different animal.

distortedtekno wrote:Sooty, I'm not looking for JJ to add features to make it compatible with the Ren. I'm looking to see what can be done about JJ being able to share details with Akai for whatever type of arrangement they can agree upon. All the JJ OS compatibility is something Akai would be sorting out themselves in the Ren software. I'm not looking for 2-way compatibility between units... just a way to keep working on the JJ OS and having a few key features in the Ren so that I can finish all my work there. I'd say that's not much of a task for Akai and JJ to work out. 2-way compatibility is a whole different animal.

fair enough. in response to that tho i'll just repost what i said about this possibility in the other thread:


first of all, your JJ projects are not going to play properly because REN lacks a bunch of the features that JJ OS has. the FILTERS, LFO's, ADSR, all of that is going to be different. and that's not even mentioning things like PATTERN mode, the way the QLINKS work, etc...

AKAI would have to built an entire emulation of the JJ OS within the REN in order for your projects to sound the same, or even close, to what they sound like on JJ OS. so JJ would have to give AKAI his entire OS source code & then AKAI would have to do a ton of work to translate & recreate that within the RENs OS and that's not going to happen.

second: let's say that JJ does give AKAI his PROGRAM format so that you can open your JJ projects in REN and use them somehow. who is going to own both a REN and an MPC1000? once you've got your JJ projects ported over to the REN, you're going to work on them there, and all of your new work will be created there as well. after a while, you'll realize you haven't touched the 1000 in a year & it will be bye bye 1000 & bye bye JJ. JJ has lost another customer and has less income from the JJ OS, which will lead to less support and development.


you guys have to look at the long term picture. sure, JJ might make a decent wad of cash upfront from AKAI to give them his format, but that is a one time only payment and after that, he will start losing customers 100 times quicker because peeps will be able to open their projects on REN and once they are there, they ain't coming back. in the long run, JJ loses bigtime.

AKAI has everything to gain by getting JJ's format (a much larger amount of people moving to the REN), and JJ has everything to lose (all his customers!)

Sooty_G wrote:

distortedtekno wrote:Sooty, I'm not looking for JJ to add features to make it compatible with the Ren. I'm looking to see what can be done about JJ being able to share details with Akai for whatever type of arrangement they can agree upon. All the JJ OS compatibility is something Akai would be sorting out themselves in the Ren software. I'm not looking for 2-way compatibility between units... just a way to keep working on the JJ OS and having a few key features in the Ren so that I can finish all my work there. I'd say that's not much of a task for Akai and JJ to work out. 2-way compatibility is a whole different animal.

fair enough. in response to that tho i'll just repost what i said about this possibility in the other thread:


first of all, your JJ projects are not going to play properly because REN lacks a bunch of the features that JJ OS has. the FILTERS, LFO's, ADSR, all of that is going to be different. and that's not even mentioning things like PATTERN mode, the way the QLINKS work, etc...

AKAI would have to built an entire emulation of the JJ OS within the REN in order for your projects to sound the same, or even close, to what they sound like on JJ OS. so JJ would have to give AKAI his entire OS source code & then AKAI would have to do a ton of work to translate & recreate that within the RENs OS and that's not going to happen.

second: let's say that JJ does give AKAI his PROGRAM format so that you can open your JJ projects in REN and use them somehow. who is going to own both a REN and an MPC1000? once you've got your JJ projects ported over to the REN, you're going to work on them there, and all of your new work will be created there as well. after a while, you'll realize you haven't touched the 1000 in a year & it will be bye bye 1000 & bye bye JJ. JJ has lost another customer and has less income from the JJ OS, which will lead to less support and development.


you guys have to look at the long term picture. sure, JJ might make a decent wad of cash upfront from AKAI to give them his format, but that is a one time only payment and after that, he will start losing customers 100 times quicker because peeps will be able to open their projects on REN and once they are there, they ain't coming back. in the long run, JJ loses bigtime.

AKAI has everything to gain by getting JJ's format (a much larger amount of people moving to the REN), and JJ has everything to lose (all his customers!)

I see where you're coming from in a technical sense, as it would be one hell of an undertaking for Akai to make it all work entirely. So I guess whatever features could be shared is better than none to some degree.

As for the case where the compatibility was complete, I'd still use my 1000 because I don't own a laptop. So if i want to make a beat somewhere other than sitting in my desk, it would be ideal to plug in my 1000 wherever I like and use the Ren/Studio to finish the rest of the project with VST/AU synths and effects when I'm in the mood to sit in front of the computer. I mentioned somewhere earlier that I could easily just do everything in Reason 6 that I'd like to do without the need for an MPC. But honestly, the MPC workflow has always been something I've enjoyed and preferred since the '90s. So having the best of both worlds and still keeping the MPC workflow in the Ren software is definitely a bonus for me. As for everyone else, it's not clear yet how many others might have the same ideal of having the best of both worlds. Maybe a poll would help determine how many people would use both. Then maybe we can weigh out the pros and cons from there. I'm sure I'm overlooking a few things at the moment since it's late and I'm tired. But I'll catch up again tomorrow and try to make sense of anything I may have missed.

Guys don t tell me AKAI don't know where to find JJ and don t tell me nobody speaks japanese at akai pro japan. That sounds a bit surreal

le rat wrote:Guys don t tell me AKAI don't know where to find JJ and don t tell me nobody speaks japanese at akai pro japan. That sounds a bit surreal

This. Can't believe a company of Akai's size would be so helpless that forum volunteers are required to make something like this happen If Akai'd want it, they'd do it.

Akai's plan:akai wants to reduce its costs to make more profit. To reduce costs and overhead, Akai plans to move to software and cheaper controllers. They have a marketing plan to sell more units to whoever will buy the darn things and ride on the coat tails of the legacy mpc name and producers.

JJ's plan: His OS is tied to a proprietary endangered species. JJ waits and hopes akai doesn't stop making the mpc1000. But his OS is the shit.

Who is gonna win?????

Prediction: JJ teams up with beat kangs and they rename the OS to AJAOS

Coz wrote:

distortedtekno wrote:But we need to be persistent in the most constructive way possible in order to be assured they are doing what they can to resolve all the issues with the current models on the market. As much as they're focused on the Ren, they still need to take care of existing issues, and this seems like the best time to communicate with them while they're here communicating with us.

When people were asking about an OS update for the 5k, Dan mentioned the fact that none of the original coders even work for Akai anymore, so it will take time for the current employees to get familiar with their own code. I wouldn't hold out for any further enhancements/bug fixes of the 'current' line to be honest.

Sadly, this is par for the course. Akai needs to familiarize themselves with the "hit by a bus rule". If developer A gets hit by a bus today, Developer B needs to be able to pick up where developer A left off. That means documentation, an environment that encourages collaboration and sharing of knowledge, and quality coding practices.

It is also reflective of Akai and the vision they have for thier products. It doesn't matter how much knowledge or excitement the dev team has - if the deciscion makers don't allocate resources and time to support thier products or bug fixes....its not gonna happen.

Not to mention all the barriers between product support and the deciscion makers.

one advantage JJ has over akai: he is the developer, CEO, CFO, CIO, descicion maker, beta tester, and user..............there are no barriers. we have direct contact with the dude. The same cannot be said for akai.

distortedtekno wrote:

JAH wrote:I am willing to do what ever I can. I think a petition thread here in the forums would have a bigger effect. We can write a letter to JJ and even have it translated in Japanese to post in a petition thread. Forum members can post in the petition thread if they are in favor of such support.

And I won't put anyone on the spot because everyone knows the forum members that are the biggest supporters of the JJ OS....but we need to get these guys involved.

I feel this thread has gone to far to even mention a petition.RUDE AND DISRESPECTFUL.Lets force a true pioneer into doing what you want?WOW.
It is shameful that a new product comes out(NOT EVEN) and it has to revert to acting like this.MY 2 TYPO