a discussion of crippled Q-LINK behavior in OS 2XL

this is something i have been investigating for the last couple days since Q-LINK usage is pretty important to how i work. at this point it is my one major sore spot with the new OS. first, some basics:

in the OS 2XL SLIDER screen, there are 2 different types of 'note variation' data you can change & record with the Q-LINK sliders:

1. REALTIME: ( TUNE, LPF CUTOFF, BPF CUTOFF, HPF CUTOFF (RESONANCE has been removed) )
2. NOTE ON: ( TUNE, LPF CUTOFF, BPF CUTOFF, HPF CUTOFF, LAYER, ATTACK, DECAY, SAMPLE START, SAMPLE END, CHOP, VELOCITY )


back in OS 2, you could use (and record) data from both sliders simultaneously into your sequence. the only restriction being that you could not use 2 NOTE ON events (a basic restriction of the AKAI os and possibly the CPU).

so Q1 could be set to REALTIME and change/record the realtime data (this would show up in GRID EDIT as the QREAL data) and Q2 could be set as NOTE ON and the data would be changed/recorded into the pad NOTE ON events themselves ( viewable & editable in STEP EDIT, tho somewhat difficult to do so ).

tweaking both of these live or recording the changes into your sequence with OVERDUB allowed for a lot of variation and movement in your sequences. you could do some really amazing morphing and transformation of your sounds while the sequence played back. ( example: try changing the SAMPLE END on a tightly looped sample. now try it while tweaking REALTIME TUNE or CUTOFF simultaneously. listen to your kick drum morph into a plucked string. )

sounds amazing... as long as you are in OS 2. you can't do this in OS 2XL !!


in OS 2XL, the behavior has changed so that you can only essentially use 1 slider at a time... and only record 1 type of variation data into your sequence PERIOD ( either NOTE ON or REALTIME, but not both! )

first, check out the brief JJ Q-LINK documentation: http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~mpc1000/os2xl/qlink.htm

Q2 is used when a note variation is set as Q1 and Q2. (Q1 does not work in this case)
Example 1: When TUNE is set as Q1 and LPF is set as Q2, only LPF of Q2 works. TUNE of Q1 does not work.
Example 2: When TEMPO or MIDI CC is set as Q1 and LPF is set as Q2, both TEMPO or MIDI CC of Q1 and LPF of Q2 work.

so, when you have 2 Q-LINKS switched on, only Q2 will work ( the only 2 exceptions are if Q1 are controlling TEMPO or MIDI-CC ).

this is a pretty bad limitation for live work, but what's worse is that you can no longer record the 2 types of variation into a sequence! you can try it yourself and take a look in STEP EDIT and see what is going on. if you record 1 pass of REALTIME slider tweaks and then record a second pass of NOTE ON tweaks, the 2nd NOTE ON pass will completely wipe out your first pass REALTIME data. if you then go again and re-record the REALTIME data, it will wipe out all the NOTE ON data you just recorded!

to me, this is a major loss of flexibility and power. essentially, the whole reason for having 2 sliders is gone and that second slider just becomes useless. everything else in OS 2XL has been a great leap forward so to see this Q-LINK functionality crippled is really a problem. i'm not asking for compatibility with old OS 2 projects as that is impossible given what has changed, but i just want to see the basic capability we had in OS 2 restored.

co-existence of REALTIME & NOTE-ON data is a must for me. experiment with those and you'll be amazed at what you can do when you start tweaking those sliders. i'd like to hear what other people who use the Q-LINKS think. if JJ thinks enough people find this lost functionality valuable then hopefully he can bring it back.

I gotta say - i'm 100% behind you on this one - i don't have OS2XL yet as i was waiting to hear on stuff specifically related to the Q-link. I use the Q-links a hell of a lot in the same way as you are describing - i find it the most creative part of the MPC. This would be a reason for me not to upgrade. Thanks for the heads up.

i miss this feature greatly, i used it to add volume/velocity variations to my high hats in real time combined with filter cutoff.
I dont know if its possible to re-implement, but this is my YES vote if it can be put back in.

Q-REAL frikken rocks.

in total agreement with you.

and as for resonance being removed?! this produced some great sounds. have any of the new cutoff parameters etc taken its place in terms of end product?

would it be possible (a pain i realise tho) just to switch OS to add these tweaks?

rarara wrote:would it be possible (a pain i realise tho) just to switch OS to add these tweaks?

if you mean: make a project in os2xl then go boot up os2 to add qreal data .... im not sure the projects are backward compatible - have you tried?

of course if you dont mean that, then please elaborate .

wow thats amazing. i am behind any effort to fix this glaring flaw.

i'm with it, qlink realtime should not overwrite NOTE ON and vice versa, no benefit is worth that

illiterati wrote:

rarara wrote:would it be possible (a pain i realise tho) just to switch OS to add these tweaks?

if you mean: make a project in os2xl then go boot up os2 to add qreal data .... im not sure the projects are backward compatible - have you tried?

of course if you dont mean that, then please elaborate .

have not tried - luckily (!?) i'm a 2500 user so i am patiently waiting for os2xl

any idea on Resonance though - has this just been replaced? don't tell me its gone!! it was great for producing high pitched/metalic noises

it's still there, just not in realtime

sigh...i never missed it til it was gone
os2xl's been a big tradeoff, lots more ease of use and sequencing power for a chunk of qlink use. the overall result has been better for my workflow but i'll be damned if it doesn't come with a price. perhaps unnecessarily so.

The timing correct q-link for swing strenthg really has to come back- i would think that's possible

cool. i'm glad to see i'm not the only one missing the power of the Q-LINKs!

i'll come up with a brief report & send it to JJ. i'll also direct them to this thread.

OS 2XL is pretty much still a beta so hopefully we can get this changed. it's one of the major things really holding the new OS back.

+1

bad news from JJ:

"Since it was with obstacles in order to add a new function, the specification of Q-LINK was changed.
Therefore, specification cannot be returned."

so that's that.
i'm giving serious thought about going back to OS 2 now.

i don't like the fact that JJ is not a musician, yet making decisions about how my musical instrument operates. we have to face the reality that JJ does not make money by supporting and bug-fixing code - he makes it by introducing novelty: new features that you have to pay for to get.

this wouldn't be a problem except he is dealing with a closed box: the MPC has very little room for codespace and no way to upgrade the hardware. so as he keeps adding features to insure his income stream, he has to keep taking away other things. as a programmer and not a musician (and also motivated by his need to keep his cashflow going), his decisions are a little suspect.

it's when he takes away CORE features of the MPC ( Q-LINK recording, Q-REAL edit, and MIXER AUTOMATION for gods sakes! ) in order to bring in some new features that have more limited appeal that we run into problems in my opinion.

i don't remember anyone asking for CHORD or ARPEGIATOR mode, EQH & EQL, the little envelope graphs in GPE, sequence rearranging, etc. these are all features that i'm happy to use, but when they come at the expense of some more basic things then forget it.

i'm tired of the constant feature swap, the worrying about what feature will be killed next, the constant loss of compatibility with old projects... you get used to a way of working and then have to re-adjust everything when JJ pulls something out. if that's what he's going to do then he needs to make the OS MODULAR! have a list of available features, you pick the ones that are important to you, and then you get the OS made. or maybe have 3 different versions of the current OS available (with the current features) that we can choose from. maybe people would buy more than one version and JJ would even end up making more money that way.

i'm willing to bet any one of us uses the MPC to make music FAR more than JJ does ( if at all ). the artists should be the ones steering the development of the tool. but right now it's JJ's way or the highway. OS 2XL came out of nowhere and it was take it or leave it. in my opinion he's giving bells and whistles while taking away solid fundamentals.

i agree. but nows the time to say maybe we are all expecting too much from this box. move on to something that can meet your needs. i know i will eventually.

This is bad news but not the end of the world.
I'm sure jj gets flooded with requests and he can't please everyone.
It would have been a nice idea to poll / get peoples ideas before he did remove a key feature.
At least we have the choice between os.
I'll be sticking with os2 - no further.