Pitch change without sample restart

If you take a sample, use 16-levels or chromatic assignment, then try to play it melodically, you get this very repetitious sound where the same exact audio phrase repeats again and again, except each time it's faster or slower and different pitch.

It works for repetitive sounds, especially percussion. But I wanted something more natural, that felt alive, because it changes rather than repeats mechanically. There's layers, but that's more of the same kind of thing, and is limited to only a few.

So I thought I'd record a long slow sound that doesn't change pitch, but changes character subtly enough to make it interesting. Then I thought I could change the pitch to make it playable like an instrument. But that didn't seem to work.

Q-link can be set to change pitch, but it's like a pitch wheel where it just sweeps from low to high without steps at the notes. The drum program has a tune parameter, and if you put the cursor in the first field before the decimal, hit the pad to trigger the long sound, and move the data wheel, then you can play the notes. But you have to go through each one, and hitting the ones you want with a clunky data wheel is very difficult.

With an instrument program, you can turn on portamento, and as long as the melody has note changes one right after the other you can play the pitch without retriggering the sound. But, what if you want to play it with gaps in between? Then it retriggers each time there's space in between notes, which again sounds repetitive.

I read the manual, and experimented with various settings, like note on, with looping, loop & hold, etc., but I couldn't find anything that would let me change the pitch while the sample played, without restarting it.

So I had to hack it. Here's the recipe:

1. Make a new sequence, which will act like an instrument program.
2. Make a new program. Either drum or instrument depending on which features you want to use to tweak the sound. If you chose drum, set it chromatic.
3. Got to grid, hit window, turn off auto increment; turn on full level.
4. Go to track 1, go to start, over dub, hit pad 1, over dub, go to track 2 ... repeat
5. If you used note on, set the sequence to be really long, and use seq edit to set the duration to last the sequence. If you used drum you can use loop & hold instead.
6. Go to track mute screen, all mute, press window and set mute type to level, mute/stop of one-shot to through, then press play.
7. Hold the solo button and press a pad. You're now in solo mode, and you can press the pads to change pitch, playing it as you normally would with 16-levels, minus the velocity changes, and it won't re-trigger the sample each time you hit a pad.
8. Bonus: Set your MIDI buttons to link keyboard keys to "TRK-XX SOLO", then you can play it on your keyboard.

You can't do anything else but this, because you're limited to 32 voices. So you can only have 32 notes available at once. It doesn't care that they're muted, it still uses a voice.

How does it sound? It's still percussive if the sample is constant, because the track mutes are abrupt. But, depending on the material, that can work. If you have changes in the sound of the sample, like if it has big changes that are done in time with the melody, then you can use it kind of like a vocoder, where you play the melody you want, but the actual content of the sound is being injected. That keeps it sounding more natural and flowing, but lets you manipulate it to fit your melody.

Is there a better way to do this? Maybe I just overlooked an obvious option. If not it'd be nice if this functionality could be added somehow, so it'd only use 1 voice. Otherwise, I guess it's just a hack for when you want to use the MPC as an instrument without retriggering the sample.

You can record the soloing, so you can play your melody to have it sequenced, then go to record mode and set it to record internally, then press play to get a sample of your melody, then bring that back into your real sequence.

Did some research, this feature is in the Roland VP-9000 VariPhrase Processor, and V-Synth. It's called legato mode.

TLDR WTF
So I am trying to understand what on earth you are talking about. You mean you want to make an instrument from a single sample and key map it. 16 levels is no good really, as it is just 16 notes so instrument is better option in this respect.
Set it to mono for legato. not portamento. Turn of portamento. Also use a sample that has little pitch shift and use LFO instead in instrument program. Also use pitch envelope as well for variation. that works a treat for modern basslines. I also use 16 level pitch to sometimes and then all you do to go up or down an octave is copy that pad and shift the pads pitch by 12 semitones up and down and change the sequence to that pad. its not as easy as instrument though, which is quicker and better. After a while you will get good enough to make evolving instruments that you can do stuff with and not as sound bad. You know i you spent half as much time making instrument programs instead of writing all that above then you would be better for it.

You kinda lost me in the verbosity, but I do understand V-Synth legato behavior. Two ideas are:

- Change the tune of samples in real-time using the Q-Links.

- Route MIDI out to MIDI in. Get creative. I'm pretty sure MPC samples can be manipulated with pitch bend. Set up a bank of pads to send MIDI CC values that route back to the sample being played.

Jamon wrote:So I thought I'd record a long slow sound that doesn't change pitch, but changes character subtly enough to make it interesting. Then I thought I could change the pitch to make it playable like an instrument.

I thought it will be shorter to make it than writing how, so here http://www.sendspace.com/file/efww8l is an ALL file and 1 empty program, load that file and program, don't record anything to sequence. Just load a sample to THIS program and play it from pad to make it sustain long enough, as oneshot or looped, no matter. Now as it already plays, push Next Sequence (has to be set to Immediately Play) press Play Start and play your pads.. get back if you got it working good or not. Bank A and few of bottom on B (os 3.20BTW)

But generally to get good sounding chromatic program you have to start using samples that are good for setting a sustain loop on them, not just a string recorded and splited on keyboard just like that. You have to make it sustain at some point and shape it with envelope and filters. Roll down to "Looping secters" on here http://www.tweakheadz.com/Sampling_Tips.html

I want Q-link tune, but using MIDI notes.

I tried the file bugfix, and it works, but it's basically the same as using the track soloing method. It's interesting you thought of that though. Bugfix setup a lot of sequences, with each one having a different Q-link tune change at the start, and a track triggering a sample. You replace the sample, then use the next sequence mode to jump from sequence to sequence to change pitch. It should only use 1 voice that way, but since it uses sequences you can't really do anything with it in another sequence.

Routing MIDI out to MIDI in seems to be the best way right now. I really wish there was internal MIDI routing. There should be virtual MIDI outs, so you can choose 1E and not have to use a physical cable plugged back into itself.

The way it works is, a long sample plays, and you setup Q1 to control its pitch. Then you set the MIDI out on the next track, and plug that cable back into a MIDI in. Go to MIDI button screen and set CC0 to Q1SLIDER. Then on the main screen set a bank of pads to CC0, each one having a different DATA.

The question is though, which DATA. The TUNE option of the Q-link has a low of 120, and high of 120. The CC output has a low of 0 and high of 127. So, it maps like this:

CC : Tune
-----------
0 : 120
1 : 119
2 : 117
3 : 115
4 : 113
5 : 111
6 : 109
7 : 107
8 : 106
9 : 104

Then the other issue is that you can change the pitch with the pads, but the note on/off functionality doesn't work, where if you release a pad it doesn't stop sounding. So you need to setup 2 more pads, that set the level to 0 and 100. Or, setup a Q-link to control level. Then when you want a note to end, you have to hit one of these other controllers to pretend like you let go of the pad.

The whole thing gets complicated and doesn't work right.

I was trying to think how this would fit into the current XL system. It doesn't seem like it'd work in an instrument or drum program, because those are really based around the premise that samples are triggered with keypress.

But I think it might work in 16 LEVELS mode. Right now it says, Assign 16 levels, with a Pad and Type. The most logical way to add this function I can think of right now is to have another mode for 16 levels that works on tracks, not pads.

So currently you have 16 levels for pads, and you can choose something like velocity, filter, or tune, and it will virtually setup a program for that pad's sample, where it duplicates it across all pads, then modifies each pad to have an incremental value of whichever type you chose. Then you can play it like a normal program, and just have those values stepped in 16 levels.

But you could do something similar with tracks. So you'd select a track, and type, then it sets up a virtual program to use the Q-link with that option, and the pads with incremental values for it, to effect a track.

You could then have a track, playing a bassline or something, and rather than just using Q-link to tweak its filter, where it's done in sweeps, you could use 16-levels to turn the pads into a 16-level Q-link, where it changes the filter in steps.

That sounds useful doesn't it? Then you could do something like just record a bassline, and rather than chopping it up you just trigger it on a track, then set 16-levels of Q-link tune, and overdub playing the pitch with the pads in sync with the notes from the sample.

Then you turn off 16-levels, and everything is back to normal, but there's recorded events that modify the tune of the track.

Another variation would be to, instead of 16 levels choosing between pad or track, it is pad or Q-link. Then you could choose what you want controlled in the Q1, and use 16-levels to turn your pads into step Q-link controllers. That's probably better, since it'd be more versatile.

Just to clarify:

You are trying to change the pitch (specifically, the playback speed) of a sample using the pads in real-time and during sample play-back.

The legato function on the Roland gear you mentioned behaves in this manner.

Assuming Pitch Bend works mid-sample, I recommend using the Pads to output Pitch Bend messages and MIDI loop that channel back into an input as mentioned before. We're instantly "bending" the sample to the desired value. You might need to turn on Multitimbrality.

http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~mpc1000/os2xl/p_bend.htm

This shows how to bend +/-12 halftones. You will be limited to +/- one octave. I don't know if each halftone is represented within the 128 value specification, but it might be close enough.

This method bypasses Q-link altogether and instead uses functions introduced with Pad Pattern to control the pitch of a sample on a different track.

I can make a video showing what I'm talking about if there's any confusion.

I understood what you were saying before, and couldn't get the pitch bend to work. I tried all the CC numbers to see if any would change the pitch, and none did.

In the page you just linked, the screenshot shows CC 100 and 101 for setting the variable range of pitch bend. But if you look in the MIDI monitor, the actual pitch bend is not a CC.

So there doesn't seem to be any way to get the pads to output pitch bend is there? If there were your way would work best, especially with virtual MIDI outs. But it seems like you need to use Q-link, with CC setup to control Q-link.

This might be a job for Pad Patterns then. Step Edit a track and insert:

1:1:000 CC101 VAL 0
1:1:002 CC100 VAL 0
1:1:004 CC6 VAL 12

Convert the even to a Pad Pattern and see if that helps.

That specific sequence of control changes didn't do anything, but while I was inserting them I saw you can insert pitch bends. So I tried that, converted to pattern, and it works!

This is the best hack so far, because it doesn't use a ton of voices or tracks or sequences. Plus you can fancy it up a bit, by doing things like setting up the patterns to have transitions, if you don't want an abrupt pitch change instantly.

The only thing is, it uses up a MIDI-in port, which I need. We need virtual MIDI channels after D.

I also need to figure out which pitch bend values correspond to notes, because it goes from -8192 to +8192.

That page in the manual shows the pitch bend sensitivity. I think the 8192 is the MIDI resolution, so if you have 12 halftones set it means you can use the pitchbend to tune up or down an octave, with 8192 steps for each octave.

If that's true, then I should be able to divide 8192 by 12, which is 683, and that should be each note.

0
683
1365
2048
2731
3413
4096
4779
5461
6144
6827
7509
8192

Sorry, that sequence only sets pitch bend range.

Edit: Of course, you might be able to use it followed by the max or min PB value to change the pitch without using math. Then just use CC6 to determine the pitch. Potentially more precise, but cumbersome.

No need to be sorry, I learned more trying it out and thinking about what it was supposed to do, and found the pitch bend in there. I'm a newbie with the MPC so there's lots for me to learn; don't ever be sorry for helping someone grow.

What's the best method to share with people how it sounds so they can see if it's worth trying, and maybe so JJ can see if it's worth implementing as a feature?

• An audio file, first played normally if you make an instrument program, then played with the legato method.
• A video of the MPC display, edited to quickly show the basic steps, also comparing how they sound in demonstration.
• A .zip file with everything setup so people can try it theirself, and replace the long sample with one of theirs.

Can you please explain in one simple sentence what this feature is that you are going on about?? I mean what is it exactly you are trying to do? in one sentence please, not a paragraph of history and background needed. just simply state it in one sentence please.
To me you are making a mountain out of a mole hill here. Is instrument program that hard to understand? I mean it seems to be the answer but for some reason you can not get correct pitch or something? or are you just simply trying to make a multisample instrument like a lot of workstations have nowadays...
since i have actually been doing pitch bends of legato bass lines i made with JJOSXL, I might as well post it here for you Jamon. is this what you are trying to do? make a instrument behave like this or different? the bass i mean