Installing OS-XL outside the 3.11 load menu?

Hello all, here is my problem with the 2500 - viewtopic.php?f=21&t=173262

Long story short I changed OS like this - Akai OS -> JJOS free (3.11) -> OS-XL -> JJOS free

After going back to the free OS I could not use my MPC because it froze and showed the "Loading program..." message.

Having successfully booted into the Akai OS I learned that something is wrong with my internal memory because selecting it in the Load/Save modes would cause a crash.

My own conclusion - XL-OS uses the internal memory to store some of its files and essentially disables it. Since the free OS has autoload from internal memory on by default, it tries to access it upon boot but cannot, leading to the endless reboot loop.

My question - does anyone know if it's possible to edit the code of the free JJOS to disable autload from internal memory? OR, is it possible to make a .bin file for OS-XL so that I can load it via Window button+Power on mode?

I have emailed JJ but communication is a bit slow and challenging and I'm not sure if he understands my problem. Would appreciate any help, thanks in advance

the problem is you did not read the instructions or the manual.
First, lets discuss Autoload, it can be turned off before switching to another OS. See manual.
OK second, the JJOS. You might like to know that you are installing an old version of the FREE JJ OS and you have to have the latest one installed before you can go to any other like OS 3 or XL.
So turn off your autolaod and update free jjos to CF card and follow instructions.

atasco wrote:My own conclusion - XL-OS uses the internal memory to store some of its files and essentially disables it. Since the free OS has autoload from internal memory on by default, it tries to access it upon boot but cannot, leading to the endless reboot loop.

This is not what is happening as the OS is installed in what is called FLASH ROM and is nothing to do with the 128 Mb memory you are talking about really.
you can try to edit the code but you have no chance unless you are proficient with programming so forget this idea.
Just try and follow instructions and use updated OS to. Read manual for autoload and turn it off. This should not stop you loading the OS though.

No, you haven't quite understood my problem.

First of all, JJOS 3.11 (free version) is the latest free version available before installing OS-XL. Quotation from the "How to install OS-XL" page:

Please install and start free version Ver3.11.

Second, before I had installed OS-XL, autoload was turned off in 3.11. However when I went back to 3.11 again, I held the erase button whilst powering on (as was advised on here) and this reset the settings and enabled autoload again.

Finally, I am not talking about RAM memory. I am talking about the internal memory, where AKAI's default samples were/are stored. There are not many details about it but what I do know (if I'm not mistaken) is that OS-XL is too big for the Flash ROM and needs to utilise the internal memory to store some of its data. That's why one of the 'features' of OS-XL is: "Cannot do the save/load to an internal memory"

JJOS 3.11 on the other hand has autoload enabled by default and is clearly trying to load a program from the internal memory (which does not seem to be accessible on my unit any more). So I can't turn off my autoload because I can't even get into the load menu. The only way for me to use my MPC is by flashing it to the AKAI OS through Window button+Power on. The reason AKAI OS works is because if a CF card is inserted when it's booting with an Autoload folder, it will read that instead of the internal memory.

I need to do this: AKAI OS -> JJOS 3.11 -> OS-XL
I'm stuck at 3.11 which goes on an infinite reboot loop and doesn't let me access the main menu/screen because something is wrong with the internal memory

oh dear
maybe you might want to go to the JJOS download site and get the latest version
http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~mpc1000/os.htm
See free JJOS it is now version 3.16
So you are wrong when you say you have latest version from god knows how long ago.
Again like I said update above - install the Free JJOS to this new version before updating JJOS XL or it wont work.

Ok next we are gonna talk about

atasco wrote:"Cannot do the save/load to an internal memory"

that has nothing to do with this, I am pretty sure you got wrong end of stick here and have read it as about the ROM but its not.

Some basics for you so you are on the same page as everyone else.

Samples are on CF card untill you load them into RAM. This is the same as the sequence memory for your sequences and songs. OK with me so far, now ROM is for the OS only ok, and the OS does not in any way need "more room" as it fits into the ROM no problems. So the RAM has nothing to do with the OS and the OS goes into the ROM. The samples and sequence data goes into RAM. Ok you with me now.

What did I say about the manual? why have you not read the Autoload section yet? any reason you can not read a manual or find it? cos its in there and that is quicker than posting this. So read the manual as this is the most basic thing and we should not have to hold your hand too much. We will help but you gotta do some basic work otherwise you look lazy. So your answer to autoload is in the manual and I wont go over it here. Hey at least I solved your other problem if you update the free JJOS right so chin up and read the manual about autoload.

atasco wrote:I'm stuck at 3.11 which goes on an infinite reboot loop and doesn't let me access the main menu/screen because something is wrong with the internal memory

No its cos you did not listen to me at all and did not even look at the free JJOS I think, as you seem to think that your old version is the new one.

If you listened to me you would have solved the problem already. So go get new update 3.16 and then try to install JJOS XL. Personally I prefer JJOS 3 which is kinda same but you will have to decide, just be aware that there is a JJ OS 3 that is like XL ok. I prefer 3 myself others XL depends on what your gonna do.

can you point out where you read 3.10 was needed like you quoted cos if you read the actual JJOSXL install instructions it tells you to update to newest version but not 3.10 so where did you see that?
http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~mpc1000/os2xl/install.htm
yeah read that again maybe to
good luck

There's a small problem mate... I'm using the MPC 2500

If you read my first post you would know that. 3.11 is the latest free version for the 2500.

And just so we are on the same page... if you buy a mint brand new 2500, there will already be some stock samples on it ON THE INTERNAL MEMORY, which is neither the RAM, nor the Flash ROM. This is what I am having a problem with. My MPC cannot access that internal memory, causing crashes and reboot loops. I'm fairly certain there is a separate internal memory (distinct from the Flash ROM) because if you upgrade from the Akai OS to JJOS you change the ROM but those stock samples still remain - i.e. they gotta be sitting somewhere.

ah sorry your on the 2500.

atasco wrote:And just so we are on the same page... if you buy a mint brand new 2500, there will already be some stock samples on it ON THE INTERNAL MEMORY, which is neither the RAM, nor the Flash ROM. This is what I am having a problem with. My MPC cannot access that internal memory, causing crashes and reboot loops. I'm fairly certain there is a separate internal memory (distinct from the Flash ROM) because if you upgrade from the Akai OS to JJOS you change the ROM but those stock samples still remain - i.e. they gotta be sitting somewhere.

no cos the samples are not in the MPC RAM when you turn it on it just loads them straight away. Only what is loaded in the RAM off the CF card from your Autoload will be present. When mine turns on it has no autoload so therefore no samples in RAM. When you turn yours on and you have samples loaded in RAM then its because it has loaded them into RAM of hard drive or CF card from the autoload. And mine was gotten new so what you say about the stock samples isn't right at all here and have no idea where you got that idea, as every sampler works like this and thats from experience with other samplers.
So again ROM has nothing to do with RAM and the samples or sequence data loaded.

Have you figured out how to turn of autoload yet. You can change the name of the folder to something else to get around it or just turn it off then your RAM will be free to load whatevs.

so turn off autoload and try again.

I can turn off autoload on the original Akai OS because if a CF card is inserted at boot, it will read from there and obviously that works fine.

I can't do this from the JJOS because by default it is set to autoload from internal memory. So, once again, I can't even get into JJOS - it doesn't get past the "loading program..." message.

There are a lot of users on this forum complaining about removing the stock samples - these are stored somewhere right? It's not on the CF because I'm using a Transcend card (why would there be Akai samples there), it's not on the Flash ROM (it gets overwritten when you change OS). So it's on this 'internal memory'. The RAM memory is emptied when you turn your unit off. That's why we use CF cards and HDDs - these store data permanently.

Just so you don't think I'm an idiot, install Akai OS 1.24, head into the load menu and go to where it says MEMORY CARD / HDD / CD whatever. There will also be an INTERNAL MEMORY entry. If I try to choose it, my MPC crashes. Clearly something is wrong with it and it can't be accessed.

@bliprock: please educate yourself about the mpc 2500 the op is using, before you insist on spreading false information or try to convince the op that he is wrong, when you clearly cannot help him with his question either. thank you!

the mpc 2500 has an internal flash rom that is used to store the os, but this flash rom has also a part of about 5mb hat can be used to save samples or sequences to (as stated in the mpc manual on page 121). in this part the factory samples are stored when you get a factory mpc 2500, or if you reinstall any of the factory os. these factory samples are also stored on the cf-card as a backup from the factory, this is why you might get it mixed up.
you also are right that the mpc loads those factory samples from the rom into the ram hen booting, but it depends on the settings of the autoload from where those samples are loaded. in factory default state the mpc 2500 loads the factory samples from the internal flash rom in to the ram (which is the 16mb ram also built in the machine, unless you have installed the 128mb ram extension, in wich case the mpc loads to that ram).
if you however set an autoload folder elsewhere, be it on the cf-card or the harddrive, then the mpc 2500 loads whatever you put into that autoload folder on boot up.

you see that the internal memory is a special area if you try to save something to it, because even if it can hold up to 5mb of data it only can be overwritten in one pass. so you can not save one sample and then later add another sample to it, as this will overwrite the first one. so in essential that internal flash rom was designed to hold the samples, sequences or programs that should be available on the machine at any time even if you forgot your cf-card elsewhere and have no hdd installed. makes sense?

now on to the problem the op has: to my knowledge the os xl is so big that it will not fit into the flash rom where the normal os is stored and as he knows much more about the internal structure of the mpc 2500 he figured a way to use that internal memory to use for the osxl, that is why it is not usable when the osxl is installed. also i think this area is where the passwort activation is stored, so you can use other jj os without a passwort after you installed the osxl (this information must be stored somewhere right?) and that might be the cause of the problem the op has, as just installing another os is not setting this area back to default, and then the reboot loop happens when the new installed os is trying to autoload from there.

so again the question, does someone know what to do in this case? eventually there is no easy solution, because if sombody paid for the osxl then they do not want to loose that information and that might be the cause why nobody thought about this situation happening at all?

if nobody knows an answer, then the only way would be to ask the jj himself, but that also might be difficult because of the language barrier - so if anyone can translate english to japanese then feel free to help the op.

peace, jo

You've got it selecta jo, finally someone has understood it.

I've spoken briefly with JJ asking him whether it's possible to make a special .bin file of 3.11 which autoloads from CF card by default (which would allow me to avoid the boot loop and install OS-XL again) or to get a .bin file for OS-XL itself (which I could install via Window button+Power on).

He said both of these are impossible or at least he's not willing to look into it. Long story short he told me to get in touch with Akai. Not sure if that would help because 2500s are discontinued and they surely wouldn't support anything to do with a 3rd party OS.

I've also spoken with MPCStuff and they claim that the internal memory is located on the main PCB board but those have been discontinued.

Very strange issue and one that could be fixed if I could somehow do a hard reset or something like that.. I guess the only good thing in all of this is that the Flash ROM is still fine - because I can install the original Akai OS and use it just fine. If anyone knows anything at all about the internal memory please get in touch.

Thanks

why not just erase autoload folder then and see if it boots.
I been using 1000 for a few years so i got fair idea thanks selecta

Hi,
First time I hear about this boot loop.

atasco wrote:
Just so you don't think I'm an idiot, install Akai OS 1.24, head into the load menu and go to where it says MEMORY CARD / HDD / CD whatever. There will also be an INTERNAL MEMORY entry. If I try to choose it, my MPC crashes. Clearly something is wrong with it and it can't be accessed.

atasco wrote:
Very strange issue and one that could be fixed if I could somehow do a hard reset or something like that.. I guess the only good thing in all of this is that the Flash ROM is still fine - because I can install the original Akai OS and use it just fine. If anyone knows anything at all about the internal memory please get in touch.

Thanks

Does it work really fine with AKAI OS? Don't you think that it could be a hardware issue like mpc-stuff or JJ are probably suggesting?

In Akai OS, as long as I don't try to save or load from internal memory it works fine. I'm not 100% sure but I don't think it's a hardware issue. I followed the instructions for installing JJOS (which are very straightforward). And before installing OS-XL everything was perfect, even the internal memory. Maybe it just randomly died on me but that would just be bad luck..

I think most people who install OS-XL don't go back to 3.11? I just wanted to try it out because I knew I could easily go back to the free OS afterwards.

Difficult situation and so frustrating, just bought my MPC about a month ago..

JJ asked me to provide him with a video of me going from AKAI OS -> JJOS 3.11. Posting it here as well just so you can see exactly what's happening

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-utW8Iot-Q

And that is a compact flash card formatted in the MPC with only JJOS as root file?

That's right. I've done this step with a card formatted by a PC and by the MPC, made no difference whatsoever. No other files on it