How far can the mpc 500 be pushed?

IVe got a particular question about the mpc 500 and then a bigger question about it. First How easy is it to manipulate seperate parts of a sequence/ is it possible? Let me explain.

Lets say i laid down a snare and i wanted to make one of the snares a different volume after I have laid it down (all snares are the same coming from one pad on full levels) For example i wanted to make the first stare loud and the second softer and the third another volume- would that be possible or would it treat all the instances of the snare as one sound (ie lowering one volume would lower all snares). Also is it possible to apply effects to one snare and not the other and how is this achieved.

My reason for asking is a bigger question which i will post on another part of the site also. - I am interested in making music that is sample based but not like traditional hip hop. If anyone has ever listened to manu chao (for instance la mentira etc) they will know that the hip hop idea of sampling can be applied to all types of music and it gives a certain collage sound and feel to music. since the 500 can plug into a computer and take sounds off the computer its seems like the possibilities are endless for the kinds of music you could arrange on the mpc. (my question becomes this is what logically seems correct yet i find it rare that many many different types of music are arranged on an mp)

I basically want to use the mpc not as typical beat machine but like a fully fledged sequences where i can take bits of sound and arragne them how i want - kind of like you would do on a computer/logic. The obvious answer might be that i should just upgrade my computer and get logic but the portability and feel of the mpc as an instrument is really important to me. I have seen some examples of people using their mpc to make different types of music but not enough to be totally convinced.

yeah you can adjust certain sounds after laying them down.

while we're on the subject, does anyone know if there's a easier way to layer kicks and snares? when i assign a second kick to the same pad, the original kick gets replaced and i end up having to go into program mode and assigning it again manually.

^if the kicks arent too complex throughout, load another kick beside the other kick, overdub and hit em on the same pattern as the other kick, or basically start from fresh and hit 2 pads at the same time with kicks on it, its pretty easy this way, hope i helped cuzzo.

or load a kick then assign it to L2 of the pad, but that's kind of the same thing, backwards.

i always double finger my layers,,it just seems to be more precise for me!!!

i love how everybody jumped on the first question and then skirted the bigger one, i guess it was just too scary haha . wimps. hahaha.

basically i was wondering if the memory limitations would get in the way with creating a kind of peace that is constantly evolving. The most creative things ive seen done with mpcs have always been live, ie not with the concern of recording itself and going back and perfecting different parts, because of this the djs didnt have to worry about memory and the other limitations of the mpcs, They just used it to trigger sound and had a blast.

im wondering and i think i already know the answer (no), if the mpc can be used to make complex peices that are recorded within the machine and edited mostly in the machine. my suspicion is its really ment to make that thumping beat that repats itself over and over again with some small varieations. (ie different chorus) / occasional differences in drumming, but isnt really able to capture and record that spontaneous live feel.

i think id need a computer for that, but im trying to figure out a way of doing my music without a computer (ie mac or pc), without all the programs and without all the "hassle", so for that i guess i need memory - lots of it, A way to make sound (that i can handel), the way to record it and the way to trigger and sequence it. exactly how thats achieved without extensive use of the computer, i do not know since everywhere i look its all digital age stuff and since im a studio music newb i need guidance

basically trying to stay away from freaking software and computers as much as possible, this is my goal since they kill my inner child hahaha

ShaolinSound wrote:but isnt really able to capture and record that spontaneous live feel.

You are so wrong with this, play around with the swing settings, turn of qauntize and learn to play a beat etc etc etc. From where did you get this idea anyway?

ShaolinSound wrote:i love how everybody jumped on the first question and then skirted the bigger one, i guess it was just too scary haha . wimps. hahaha.

basically i was wondering if the memory limitations would get in the way with creating a kind of peace that is constantly evolving. The most creative things ive seen done with mpcs have always been live, ie not with the concern of recording itself and going back and perfecting different parts, because of this the djs didnt have to worry about memory and the other limitations of the mpcs, They just used it to trigger sound and had a blast.

im wondering and i think i already know the answer (no), if the mpc can be used to make complex peices that are recorded within the machine and edited mostly in the machine. my suspicion is its really ment to make that thumping beat that repats itself over and over again with some small varieations. (ie different chorus) / occasional differences in drumming, but isnt really able to capture and record that spontaneous live feel.

i think id need a computer for that, but im trying to figure out a way of doing my music without a computer (ie mac or pc), without all the programs and without all the "hassle", so for that i guess i need memory - lots of it, A way to make sound (that i can handel), the way to record it and the way to trigger and sequence it. exactly how thats achieved without extensive use of the computer, i do not know since everywhere i look its all digital age stuff and since im a studio music newb i need guidance

basically trying to stay away from freaking software and computers as much as possible, this is my goal since they kill my inner child hahaha

This version is low-quality, but listen to the El Gato song on my MySpace if you want. I did it on the 500 and if you listen to the whole thing, it changes up hella. Also, it's in 3/4, 5/8 and like a 5-count 4/4 bossa nova timings. A lot of the changes were made using the sample that plays on the first 12 bars.

I maxed out the memory, even after discarding the ends of most samples. I used like, I don't know, 12 sequences. And did track mutes on most sequences to change those up even more.

if you can't see my sig (I don't know what the post number you need is) it's myspace.com/dbinkc and the song is El Gato. It's a pretty complex composition IMO.

64hz wrote:You are so wrong with this, play around with the swing settings, turn of qauntize and learn to play a beat etc etc etc. From where did you get this idea anyway?

I know all about swing and not quantizing when i was talking about a spontaneous live feel im saying basically you notice that there is no loop function under a real drummer hahah so neccesarily the timing is allot more flexible (the reason why old reggae is so much better than most new stuff). When people start relying on loops to convey music you get a whole different feel then when your relying on live drumming (whether it comes from a drummer or someone whos constantly triggering new events from the pads). No matter how much swing you put if your looping something its always going to sound less spontatneous then if it is played in real time. Computers somewhat solve that problem because their large memories allow you to instead of relying on a loop that stays constant, with the exception of muting parts and adding parts in- you can actually copy and paste information endlessly and tinker with individual events. I used to be a real hip hop head for a long time (still am but i see it as a recovering addiction) , for the brief time i had an mpc i was just tinkering around with making cool classic hip hop beats. so now that im looking if an mpc would be the right thing to get i just dont know because i never pushed it in that direction before. I know a 4000 would be able to do what im saying no problem because it has tons of memories but like most people here i cant afford one .

64hz wrote:This version is low-quality, but listen to the El Gato song on my MySpace if you want. I did it on the 500 and if you listen to the whole thing, it changes up hella. Also, it's in 3/4, 5/8 and like a 5-count 4/4 bossa nova timings. A lot of the changes were made using the sample that plays on the first 12 bars.

I maxed out the memory, even after discarding the ends of most samples. I used like, I don't know, 12 sequences. And did track mutes on most sequences to change those up even more.

Your music is really inspiring and very good, it shows lots of variation and creativity. like how you varied up the timing. Ive listened to it a few times now and it doesnnt get boring at all and feels very musical. When you say that you maxed out the memory your saying you used it all up (the 2 gig memory card? and the ram) to make the beat right? Did it feel like a pretty difficult stretch to do that on the mpc? Sometimes uphill battles are good to make music and most good music is made on a kind of uphill battle against technologies limitations but i just want ot know how much of an uphill battle it is on the mp. Is all the aditional instrumentation all sampled and sequenced in the mpc? Thanks, and again great music , ill definetely be listening in on the stuff you make.

ShaolinSound wrote:

64hz wrote:This version is low-quality, but listen to the El Gato song on my MySpace if you want. I did it on the 500 and if you listen to the whole thing, it changes up hella. Also, it's in 3/4, 5/8 and like a 5-count 4/4 bossa nova timings. A lot of the changes were made using the sample that plays on the first 12 bars.

I maxed out the memory, even after discarding the ends of most samples. I used like, I don't know, 12 sequences. And did track mutes on most sequences to change those up even more.

Your music is really inspiring and very good, it shows lots of variation and creativity. like how you varied up the timing. Ive listened to it a few times now and it doesnnt get boring at all and feels very musical. When you say that you maxed out the memory your saying you used it all up (the 2 gig memory card? and the ram) to make the beat right? Did it feel like a pretty difficult stretch to do that on the mpc? Sometimes uphill battles are good to make music and most good music is made on a kind of uphill battle against technologies limitations but i just want ot know how much of an uphill battle it is on the mp. Is all the aditional instrumentation all sampled and sequenced in the mpc? Thanks, and again great music , ill definetely be listening in on the stuff you make.

Thanks.

I mean the 128 MB RAM was full.

There were live snares, percussion, hi-hats, Fender Rhodes Piano, Saxaphone and scratching sampled onto and sequenced on the 500.

It took a long time. Wasn't hard but you have to be willing to tweak on drum phrase over, and over, and over again until it fits right.

You can use your MPC like a DAW if you know how.

When the saxophone solo kicks in it's:

A Low Passed sample (the bassline)
Stock drums, sequenced
"live drums", sequenced
High register note on Sax being held
Sax solo, triggered via pads, one long sample
Rhodes riff triggered by pads
Rhodes chords


So I kind of used it like a DAW.

Thanks for the love on the beat.

ShaolinSound wrote:I know all about swing and not quantizing when i was talking about a spontaneous live feel im saying basically you notice that there is no loop function under a real drummer hahah so neccesarily the timing is allot more flexible (the reason why old reggae is so much better than most new stuff). When people start relying on loops to convey music you get a whole different feel then when your relying on live drumming (whether it comes from a drummer or someone whos constantly triggering new events from the pads). No matter how much swing you put if your looping something its always going to sound less spontatneous then if it is played in real time. Computers somewhat solve that problem because their large memories allow you to instead of relying on a loop that stays constant, with the exception of muting parts and adding parts in- you can actually copy and paste information endlessly and tinker with individual events. I used to be a real hip hop head for a long time (still am but i see it as a recovering addiction) , for the brief time i had an mpc i was just tinkering around with making cool classic hip hop beats. so now that im looking if an mpc would be the right thing to get i just dont know because i never pushed it in that direction before. I know a 4000 would be able to do what im saying no problem because it has tons of memories but like most people here i cant afford one .

Sorry but then you are using it wrong, do not fall in the trap of 4 bar loops..... Be more creative, put it on 32 bars, turn of qaunt. and just play with your hands for 32 bars long. The amount of memory in the unit has nothing to do with the swing or lively feel it produces, it is you! Imagine that my MPC 60 has only 1.5mb of ram... fuk I should not even be able to start it up in ur opinion. You Sir, need more time with a MPC.

Yea I think the mpc 500 won't disappoint anyone willing to put the time in to learn & experiment... you could drum out a completely live set if you wanted to no prob... Memory at 128mb don't seem to be a big problem either, that's enuff for some pretty huge compositions. Creative limitations only exist within the artist using it for the most part in my opinion.

Dude I rock a 500 and a mac and logic...let me tell you it is awesom. Load the sequences into logic via midi, drag and drop samples, use it as a controller, use it for portability, whatever if you have these three what else do you nee? Well maybe recycle, and I like dj controllers and an mpc for dj sets as well!

All I can say is 'step edit'. I've been fannying around with the 500 since I got in, and only today (like, TODAY) have I sat down and learned how the step editor works. It's possibly the best thing I've ever done.

There are limitations to the 500's editing (like, you can't do pan automation - sucks) but if you're clever with your programs, you can get pretty much anything going on. One, one-shot drum hit will go a LONG way if you're clever with it.