First un-impression

so strange that if I do the same thing I described above on my RS7000, the recycled loops sound exactly the same but on MPC they don't ??
even with your theory of microlatencies...we should be talking about milliseconds that should not be even 'hearible'
sorry man, I do hacking of loops and then re-looping them on other gear , other PC's, other software a little bit too much to be impressed with your theory as an explanation of the MPC's poor reproduction of Patched Phrases as I have this problem with no other soft/hardware application

and how should I fix micro latencies ??
I would really be glad to know how you can solve this on MPC as you only have the BPM 1 number after the comma, meaning for 0,1 BPM at 120 BPM means steps of 0,05 seconds, is that micro latency ? I don't think so...

please explain me how you treat a 120BPM Logic or whatever loop in MPC to have the Tempo for Patched Phrase correctly

reeloy wrote:.....you never know the bpm...and you should know that....

120 bpm in logic is NOT 120 bpm in ableton....

120 bpm on a g4 is NOT 120 bpm a g5....

...it's NEVER AND NOWHERE....EXACTLY the SAME tempo....

bounces got mirco latencies...processors never count the SAME WAY...

you allways need to fix loops again, once you changed their home.....

then do the test as I explained completely in MPC : make a loop at 120 BPM, resample the output en make a Patched Phrase of it (the MPC tempo is correct, right ? or is a loop of 120 BPM in MPC, at it's outputs not 120 BPM anmymore ??)
The Patched Phrase should sound e x a c t l y the same as the loop...does it ??

.. .all systems i worked on, the mpc included, produce in cases like this a little, let's call it the thinkgap....at the beginnig there is allways a little tick before, sometimes even after, the first bar....

you have to shake the tree of slices at least a bit....and make sure with a zoom what this thinkgap looks like and discard it...rest is as mmbjs allready said....before you slice make it run smooth in circle, no matter how you createtd the loop or where it comes from....

and never forget, your mpc is NOT like your computer...it's more like your guitar...

Amen!!!

seiko wrote:sorry but even if I use loops of which I know the Tempo exactly (because I made them myself in Ableton), there is a very huge sound difference between
-playing this loop as it is
-playing the Patched Phrase version of the loop

both in the tempo the loop is made . I mean : I'm not even altering the tempo. I tried both rhytmic loops as well as synth loops and the difference is huge with both kinds?
Needless to say the Patched Phrase version sounds like sh*t compared to the orginial

For me Patched Phrase on MPC5000 is not useable.
I have to say I keep the Defaults when converting to Patched Phrase, normally 'defaults' are values that 'usually work the best' allthough in this Akai these defaults might be completely useless...at least they are not doing it for me at all.
I guess altering these Parameters should give a better result, but I was not able to figure out -with Manual besides me- how they should be to give a decent result, tried by trial-and-error but still no luck.

EXACTLY>

I played some more at my cabin this weekend...

Overall the flexibility is good. The sound is pretty good too.


I am still having random glitches all the time though.


Ill give it another week or so.

reeloy wrote:.....you never know the bpm...and you should know that....

120 bpm in logic is NOT 120 bpm in ableton....

120 bpm on a g4 is NOT 120 bpm a g5....

...it's NEVER AND NOWHERE....EXACTLY the SAME tempo....

bounces got mirco latencies...processors never count the SAME WAY...

you allways need to fix loops again, once you changed their home.....

I disagree. A loop is a loop. I usually sample with my pc and actually make loops with Sound Forge. Once I save the truncated loop, I can open it in Sonar, Ableton Live, or my Motif ES7 and it's all good. No need to fix anything.

Reeloy makes sense, how do you guys explain sync drift?

reeloy wrote:.. .all systems i worked on, the mpc included, produce in cases like this a little, let's call it the thinkgap....at the beginnig there is allways a little tick before, sometimes even after, the first bar....

and never forget, your mpc is NOT like your computer...it's more like your guitar...

very strange : MPC can re-sample it's outputs but you still have to work your recorded loop to make it loop seamlessly ??
My Machinedrum UW can resample it's outputs and loop it seamlessly without any extra work, RS7000 the same, Ableton the same.
So MPC is the only one with a 'thinking gap' so big you have work on the loops it samples from itself

I can see the sides of both argument...

However the most important thing regardless of technical difficulty or process is really that it should "just work". We get a PC when we want to have loads of freedom, flexibility and control. We get an MPC when we want it to be simple, stream lined and consistent. The MPC line is supposed to be a hands on creative box so you can roll up your sleeves and get as clean or dirty as you'd like in short order. I've recorded plenty of seamless loops on my MPC 1k with JJOS and haven't had to mess around with re-re-sampling. The fact that the 5k cannot apparently do this properly is a real shame.

' 120 bpm in logic is NOT 120 bpm in ableton....

120 bpm on a g4 is NOT 120 bpm a g5.... '



* Uhmn ..... no, this is not so. There should be no difference at the stated tempo rates. I have imported songs files from all manner of DAW back and forth to these programs and many more ( Cubase and Logic ) and all play at the song file locked bpm rate ! I would strongly disagree with this statement from my own experience.

' First, don't judge it by OS 1 because it was horrible. All those glitches are probably the many bugs in OS 1. Although OS 2 has a couple glitches and sluggish response when changing parameters but still is better overall. The screen being slightly brighter in the corner is no big deal really. '


Again, I can fully understand that despite the above, you buy a product to do what it says on the tin and Akai have seriously failed in this aspect. I would ultimately state that the product is not fit for purpose and should be returned under the SoA Act for immediate refund !

I find the horror stories with the 5000 staggering ... Akai need a legal rocket up their collective backsides to prevent them taking peoples money and delivering a faulty product - it is beyond a joke !! I think the MPC communities need to collectively shout very loudly at Akai with a unified legal voice ... That will either force them into delivering working products or smash them against the wall with bankruptcy.

I am pleased with the unit I use now, but I have really been idssapointed beyond belief with other Akai products recently owned and qucikly got rid of due to their faulty nature.

What unit are you using now?

The 1000. modded.

I had a couple of the controllers before this for use with my software studio - but both units ( the MPD16 and 32 ) gave me utter headaches - and Akai's woeful after-sales support didn't make things any better !

Infact, the midi side of the MPC1000 worked far better than the , at the time , flagship MPD32 controller ( no joke ! ). How that unit didn't meet the wall at high velocity is a small miracvle in itself ? It truly was a piece of utter sheiit, put very mildly. Infact, I was both so disgusted and enraged at the poxiness of that heap of plastic crap that I wrote e very nasty letter to Akai about their rubbish and they actually wrote back and apologised for their unit no less ( turns out that many people with a similar Cubase/Nuendo configuartion to me were having absolute nightmares getting the darn thing to trigger so much as in time ). It was almost enough to put me off of Akai altogether, until a friend said try a 1000 and I wouldn't be disappointed - and he was right. I could of bought 2500 or even a 4000, but I bought this 1000 from a Church guy for around 350 in US dollars ( a real steal ). it was under a year old and in pretty good shape. So, overall, I still use mainly software for much of my drumming needs, but the Akai is drawn upon here and there, and I always enjoy banging around on those little pads.

Yeah, I've got the 1k myself. I had pretty much the same experience with the MPD32, except I had the 1k already and was hoping to get something out of all the extra knobs/sliders... turns out the unit itself wasn't quite what I was hoping for.

Good luck with the 1k, consider upgrading to JJOSv2/XL... I've been quite happy with XL myself. It's actually pretty amazing how close a 1k with JJOS and a synth can get you to what a 5k can do for a lot less cash.