record/playback q-link movements via midi

hahahaha, I'm sorry, I threw a burning match in a pool of fuel!!! I understand you all have to protect the beloved mpc you paid for, but hey, if mpc is the best sampler on the earth, why just few sample libraries are made in mpc format? there are ten times more high quality libraries made in Reason's sampler format than in MPC's!!!

mpc is GREAT for laying down patterns quickly and has a WONDERFUL workflow and a UNIQUE groove, but is very limited if used in a studio environment. you always have to multitrack your patterns on your daw and then work on the audio files... this is ok for hiphop and other "block-made" genres (with separate intro, chorus, verse, bridge, etc) it's also ok in electronic genres to put toghether a loop to be recorded in audio and then edited in a daw (see richard devine etc) but what to do if the mpc is your main sequencer and you have to automate a parameter for 16 bars? and if you have to automate 10 parameters? c'mon! you all know that serious producers use the mpc's just to lay down patterns, not to arrange songs!!!!!

@ dreadnutz: I NEVER said that ableton live sounds better than the mpc!!! I said that the songs I made tracking in ableton my other hardware (synths, drum-machines) sound way better than the songs I made tracking in ableton my mpc.

going further: if you believe that minimal is easy and stupid, you are the one limited from stereotypes. listen to serious minimal techno artists like gaiser from minus records. do you think you would be able to recreate something similar with just your mpc (without sampling records)? in this kind of music mpc IS a limit.

anyway, don't get angry dude... I'm saying that mpc is not for ME. I'm happy if you all are happy with it. but don't say you can do everything with it. producing complete and saleable minimal, idm, house, electro, drum'n'bass tracks with just an mpc is simply impossible.

peace,
Cat3

well first, no one ever said the mpc 5000 is the best 'sampler' ever.

its is only the best "SAMPLING" drum machine midi sequencer ever, or even best drum/one shot sampler, also with an integrated VA synth and 8 track hd recorder.

but i think i can clear things up a bit, ...if you had enough money to throw down on a fast enough computer, to make a DAW 'tight' enough, even if you had to get a seperate yet better midi time clock, ...and you had the most best/"current" sampling type instruments/drummachine things, ...and you had pads plugged in, ...lets say Akai mpk49... ...then yes, it would be able to do everything your MPC would do with a sound card that is as good or better (when correctly figured with the best A/D/A converters), to do anything and infinitely more.

like infinite potential, ....that is one option. ...this option can also be something like max/msp

but in the words of moby, although i can't say i really like him, i just thought he made a good point, but he said that he has and uses a lot of old vintage equipment and tries to stray away from the computer whenever possible because why? he says when you have too many options and too many potentials you start to lose some of the spark in your creativity, because you are always learning, and never mastering, thus never thinking outside the box.

but with an extremely simplified setup, ...think aphex twin, ...you create creativity by learning the inner organs of your 'piece of equipment' so that in the end it becomes an instrument within itself.

you are just a person who bough a record player to play records like an old man.

...you are not being a 'DJ' who turns a record player into an instrument.

its not what 'in' the mpc 5000 that counts, ...its how people learn to work around it and use it to serve their own purposes that creates a certain level of music that only the masters of MPC's can create and has yet to be replicated on anything else.

-that took a lot out of me-
~oneday2one~

good comment oneday2one.

@cats
sorry for saying stupid 4 to the floor beats...

belive me, i am not a hiphop fanatic, though i like these oldschool beats from early 90s a lot and my drums are mostly sounding like these ones...

but i know the techo scene since nearly 15 years, i started in the early 90s with so called acid techno clubs/partys/events with some friends they were djing.
only setup was a 909+303+1210 tt

and i am from austria (you are from germany i guess) so believe me we have/had the same club scene like our germanys friends...

but i must say: today nothing more boring than techno music (for me at least)
i mean: everyone sounds the same, same fx, same synthsounds, same PRESETS...

and thats so funny:
nowadays everyone can afford a highend computer, highend gear, audiocards etc.etc.
but the music is sooooo lame....

in the 90s everywhere great ideas, great music:
techno, drum&bass, downbeat, hiphop and every genre between
and thats WITHOUT using a computer

so please rethink:
gear doesn't make music, it's always the human behind

i am out of this discussion

....and cat3,

who needs samplelibs.....mpc is for guys who work their own!
reason and co are everywhere! thats why there are so many libs for them....mpc is only for those who know......you don't...

if you don't start the 4 weeks martyrium of working with the 5 k ALONE......

it's not gear...it's an instrument...i'm using mpc's for almost 16 years now, and i still discover new possebilties in old, well known functions.....

it forces you to go new ways....and damn yeah, of course you can do amazing minimal trax with it....
with a good mastering (as allways) at the end, even all inside the box.....

but it seems to me, you want to sound like some idols and thats it....then of course you got to do it like all the others.....

and by the way, ableton is the worst tape machine you can work with....tape in pt, logic or at least cubase...but not live....
and tape in free willy sync...the.mpc groove is only breathing when you let it run free...and fix it to grid later.....
yeah, you got me, finish the basic arrange in your new friend, THE SONG EDITOR and tape that free willy...forget about advanced automation at this point.... thats only design, not essence...and you're right, in final design the computer, the studio is much better.....

but i repeat myself....

first you play the instrument...then you end up in a studio.....
give it a try and play that instrument....in the end it will push your sound to the next level and makes it unique...promise.

@ oneday2one: I understand your point... but what I'm following is the music I have in my mind... the atmospheres... the emotions... the instrumet in itself is just something I use to turn my ideas into reality. I only ask my instruments to be powerful, easy and complete. I think you mpc addict are a bit "fetish" about this machine. why have I to force myself to do something with my mpc if I could made it much more easily with another machine? I repeat, I tried Native Instruments Maschine and I completely fell in love with it! Now I'm using it ALONE for producing my music and I feel in heaven. THIS is a machine I will go deep with!!! (even if my mpc is really more attractive...)

@dreadnutz: I'm from Italy and I also follow the electronic scene from 15 years. I absolutely agree with you opinion about the techno being made with always the same presets and about the creativity of the 90's being lost nowadays. but please consider that today EVERYONE can produce music, a computer and a couple of software are enough (or, following the opinion of the users of this forums, an mpc alone). try to listen to the BIG techno / house / breaks / electronica productions. There you will find the creativity. Don't judge today's music from the unknown-little-teens-wanna-be-home-made productions...

Ps: can I hear some of your tracks? I'm getting curious!

@reeloy: as I told you before, I spent 5 months working with the mpc alone... I never sample from other producer's tracks. I work mostly with one shot samples. mpc5000 comes with a large HD in order to hold sample libraries. it also come bundled with a bunch of samples from loopmasters, and akai itself sells sample libraries on their website. maybe they also don't know...

Is not important for me to sound like my idols... but it seems it's important for the labels I send my demo to. If you want to make music just for yourself you can "go deep" with a barbie-electric-piano and make an entire concept album with it, but if you want to sell there are some rules to respect (unfortunately).

if you really felt this way, you wouldn't spend so much time and effort on this forum.

maschine, and loop libraries and sample libraries are not at all why people use the MPC

maschine is great, but not if you do not want to use any sound library or sample cd for drums, ...what if you want to find your own drum sounds? ...from old jazz records, or recordings from objects in nature or your own room or even movies.

you know, ..and also, ...you could easily use the MPC as a sequencer for a synth that made the ambient sounds/textures you are looking for.


but to get on a guitar forum and tell people the guitar is stupid because cubase is better, ....is the same thing as what you are doing.

there are many synthesizers, ...but there is only one "MOOG"

there are many sequencing sampling options, but there is only one "MPC"

there are cd players, tape decks, mp3s, 8-tracks, record players, but only one "turntable"

at some point, something will become an instrument.

you record a hammond B3 into a DAW
you record a rhodes mkV into a DAW
you record vocals and guitar into a DAW
you record a moog into a DAW
and you record an "MPC" into a DAW, ...it is only the most new and interesting thing to be considered by the vast majority to be an instrument.

just like a guitar, ...(which also sequences varying notes and rythms to sounds, and if we go electric, it can have many sounds, effects, arppegiated patterns, and synthlike textures)

the DAW is the "HOME"

the rest is the instruments you so choose to use, ...if MASCHINE is your instrument, then by all menas "make" it an "instrument" by actually learning it inside out, ...
what a shame and a waste when people don't push their instruments to their full potential.

person A would rather have 1000 softsynths and just search for the best preset with minor tweaks and effects,

while person B would stick to 2 softsynths, (the White Stripes) and rock the fricking world with pure creativity.

there is no right or wrong.

simply a final acceptance of an MPC as an actual "instrument"
because it is.

they wouldn't make it if they couldn't sell it, ...and when they stop making moogs and MPC's, then i'll say you were right all along, but something tells me this is not going to happen for a 'very' long time. because of the 'musicians' who took time to 'learn' an 'instrument'.

~oneday2one~

....cat3,

you better sell it now....and may you be happy with the berlin mpc killer/the with computer only mpc rippoff ...

especially the minus guys will sing along the presetnumbers next time they hear a demo from you.....

c'mon guys, don't feel offended! I simply have another vision of the thing. I always wanted the MPC to have some features I was missing. Now I've found these features in NI Maschine. With Maschine I can sample my elektron machinedrum and do all the tricks I love, just with the mpc, but in a quicker way. I don't care for the presets... I always make my own kits and love to tweak all my sounds, otherwise I would go with something like Battery, don't you think?

I never told MPC is stupid, it's a great INSTRUMENT. I only told that you cannot make some genres (e.g. minimal) with it alone due to some limitations it has. Do you think MPC has no limits? It's not a case if almost everybody use it for hiphop-like music while nearly nobody use it for minimal / idm / etc...

cheers,
Cat3

oneday2one wrote:maschine is great, but not if you do not want to use any sound library or sample cd for drums, ...what if you want to find your own drum sounds? ...from old jazz records,

your own drum sounds...from jazz records
how funny
so ripping some drums from a jazz record and then call it 'your own'...what a joke
cat3 (and I also) make our own drumsounds (read up on Machinedrum = drum SYNTHesizer)

ah, endless discussion here about the MPC between people like us who need a lot (of automation/FX/possibilities) from a machine -which MPC fails to deliver- and 'the hiphoppers' that only need it to lay down 4 tracks of samples from records and then do all the rest in Protools.
Any Hiphopper over here using the MPC as only tool to come from loop til finished track ?
Because that's the only thing we want : to be able to make a complete track (not only the 4 bar loop it's based on) with all automation needed inside the MPC (and I also want to use it for Live use). I am not talking about mastering, just 'construct' the whole track inside this box. Well for the moment I'm not able to...

Cat3 wrote:hahahaha, I'm sorry, I threw a burning match in a pool of fuel!!! I understand you all have to protect the beloved mpc you paid for, but hey, if mpc is the best sampler on the earth, why just few sample libraries are made in mpc format? there are ten times more high quality libraries made in Reason's sampler format than in MPC's!!!

mpc is GREAT for laying down patterns quickly and has a WONDERFUL workflow and a UNIQUE groove, but is very limited if used in a studio environment. you always have to multitrack your patterns on your daw and then work on the audio files... this is ok for hiphop and other "block-made" genres (with separate intro, chorus, verse, bridge, etc) it's also ok in electronic genres to put toghether a loop to be recorded in audio and then edited in a daw (see richard devine etc) but what to do if the mpc is your main sequencer and you have to automate a parameter for 16 bars? and if you have to automate 10 parameters? c'mon! you all know that serious producers use the mpc's just to lay down patterns, not to arrange songs!!!!!

@ dreadnutz: I NEVER said that ableton live sounds better than the mpc!!! I said that the songs I made tracking in ableton my other hardware (synths, drum-machines) sound way better than the songs I made tracking in ableton my mpc.

going further: if you believe that minimal is easy and stupid, you are the one limited from stereotypes. listen to serious minimal techno artists like gaiser from minus records. do you think you would be able to recreate something similar with just your mpc (without sampling records)? in this kind of music mpc IS a limit.

anyway, don't get angry dude... I'm saying that mpc is not for ME. I'm happy if you all are happy with it. but don't say you can do everything with it. producing complete and saleable minimal, idm, house, electro, drum'n'bass tracks with just an mpc is simply impossible.

peace,
Cat3

Well really it's to each his own.

seiko wrote:

oneday2one wrote:maschine is great, but not if you do not want to use any sound library or sample cd for drums, ...what if you want to find your own drum sounds? ...from old jazz records,

your own drum sounds...from jazz records
how funny
so ripping some drums from a jazz record and then call it 'your own'...what a joke
cat3 (and I also) make our own drumsounds (read up on Machinedrum = drum SYNTHesizer)

ah, endless discussion here about the MPC between people like us who need a lot (of automation/FX/possibilities) from a machine -which MPC fails to deliver- and 'the hiphoppers' that only need it to lay down 4 tracks of samples from records and then do all the rest in Protools.
Any Hiphopper over here using the MPC as only tool to come from loop til finished track ?
Because that's the only thing we want : to be able to make a complete track (not only the 4 bar loop it's based on) with all automation needed inside the MPC (and I also want to use it for Live use). I am not talking about mastering, just 'construct' the whole track inside this box. Well for the moment I'm not able to...

thanks god someone got what I'm saying!!!

hmm. ...my current favorite snare is a combination of 6 different snares eq'd and filtered on different levels from 6 different old records, combined with one vocal 'sound' and one 'sound' of me banging (actually thumping) cardboard ...all layered, eq'd, and filtered to perfection.

how much time and effort does it take with your synth?

what a question... for your information, you cannot sample old records with a synth.

this discussion is becoming useless and I won't reply anymore. all started because I told you I was surprised that the mpc cannot receive or transmit its own sound parameters via midi. that was odd for me since all my machines are doing that! and this must be odd also for other people, since almost 200 people read this topic in few days.

I admitted the strenght of the mpc for many tasks... and I just talked about some of its limits... mpc do have limits. these limits are hard to accept for me since they regard some tasks I use very often. that's all.

on your side you all continue telling me that I shouldn't need to connect my mpc to any DAW because you all with your mcp alone can do everything: great minimal, great idm, great "different" music of any genre, great automations, great sequencing, great arrangements, great synth sounds, great fx, great samples from great old jazz records, and also great coffee and great sex. and this becuse "you know"...

you know what's funny? if you go on the "Elektron Machinedrum" forum they all say they can do everything with the Machinedrum alone, if you go on the "Guru" forum they all say they can do everything with Guru alone, if you go on the "Reason" forum they all say they can do everything with Reason alone... summing it up: if you go on the "anything with a sequencer" forum they all say they can do everything with it alone. 'cause music is just an hobby for them.

then there are people that say: I use "...." for my drums, "...." for my synth sounds, "..." for my effects and arrange everything in "...": these people are producing records.

what a question... for your information, you cannot sample old records with a synth.

this discussion is becoming useless and I won't reply anymore. all started because I told you I was surprised that the mpc cannot receive or transmit its own sound parameters via midi. that was odd for me since all my machines are doing that! and this must be odd also for other people, since almost 200 people read this topic in few days.

I admitted the strenght of the mpc for many tasks... and I just talked about some of its limits... mpc do have limits. these limits are hard to accept for me since they regard some tasks I use very often. that's all.

on your side you all continue telling me that I shouldn't need to connect my mpc to any DAW because you all with your mcp alone can do everything: great minimal, great idm, great "different" music of any genre, great automations, great sequencing, great arrangements, great synth sounds, great fx, great samples from great old jazz records, and also great coffee and great sex. and this becuse "you know"...

you know what's funny? if you go on the "Elektron Machinedrum" forum they all say they can do everything with the Machinedrum alone, if you go on the "Guru" forum they all say they can do everything with Guru alone, if you go on the "Reason" forum they all say they can do everything with Reason alone... summing it up: if you go on the "anything with a sequencer" forum they all say they can do everything with it alone. 'cause music is just an hobby for them.

then there are people that say: I use "...." for my drums, "...." for my synth sounds, "..." for my effects and arrange everything in "...": these people are producing records.

perfectly said, ... very well stated, ... completely the truth in every way.

words of the truest wisdom.

much applause.

well done.

~oneday2one~

I do minimal techno with my mpc5000 and elektron machine drum and some other gear. But, cat3, the actual minimal techno sound is the result of exhausting the software (r)evolution of the last 10 years on the computer, and not the other way round via hardware. So doing minimal with hardware is possible, but you have to force your imangination over some limits and you have to think how hardware set ups have to be arranged to be appealing to you. I prefer the somehow limited physical hardware aspect over the endless possibilities of a computer alone solution. It makes my brains and body feel free on the other side. Thanks to MIDI I have not to use an mpc 5000 all alone for my music. But as a main sequencer, it is great. And I don't think there is the ultimate production-machine for minimal other than the computer, best connected with some external equipment.