MPC 5000 questions before buying

tapedeck wrote:

slicer wrote:I'm mainly interested in the synth and will be using the machine mainly for experimental music.

forget the big guys and go with jj.

jj has added a lot of experimental features so i think you'd do better riding an os on the cutting edge vs. an os pandering to a 20 year strong fan base.

cool. does JJOS allow qLink sample stutter/slicing live? I'm not a JJos cat so i cant speak to that.

EDIT -------------> if nothing else I think its safe to say that MPC 5000 is a really polarizing machine. you either love it or you hate it. there doesnt seem to be much in between. so much potential yet there are obvious missed opportunities for.... ahhh that is all. if considering there is plenty of info here to go on. good luck.

I have a 1000 with jjos and the 5000...
The 5000 rocks with having hd plack/recording.. as you can stream long samples.. downside is arranging them in a set order.. MEaning you can only play the hd playback in song mode.. And you cant rearrange song order .... So you have to work out your order first.. then program/make songs in the order you want your set in. You also cant change programs or tracks while playing a hd playback recorder.. maybe via assignable foot switch but i haven't tried that yet... The synth programming or va on the 5000 is very underated.. it's quite fun to come up with some synths on it.. For me the only way to come up with good stuff is to find a preset and then tweak it to the way you want it.. And it's quite easy to do that... Since the qlinks are mapped very well.. has 192 max ram compared to 1000 128 max

Jjos has much more sample/pad mangling features than the 5000. also better sequencing features.. More midi options...(pad to midi cc)Also padscan trigger patterns aswell.. So much more controlling(externaldevices) options are available . you can create some pretty cool wavetable synth patches.(looping very short samples and layering them)..using keygroup intr prog... (can also do this with 5000) Also the qlinks (depending on jjos) can be set to change non destructive chops, which you mite like if you want to mess around with studder/glitch type techniques...


Get the 1000 if you plan to mess around more with samples.....

Get the 5000 if you plan to stream long files .. and only want to use one prgram per song...(you can set each song to use a different program)

Personally because you have the ot i'd get the 1000...

tapedeck wrote:

slicer wrote:I'm mainly interested in the synth and will be using the machine mainly for experimental music.

forget the big guys and go with jj.

jj has added a lot of experimental features so i think you'd do better riding an os on the cutting edge vs. an os pandering to a 20 year strong fan base.

There isnt a JJOS for the 5K though, is there? This is one of my reservations about buying it. I want the synth but don't want to be restricted to an Akai OS.

slicer wrote:

tapedeck wrote:

slicer wrote:I'm mainly interested in the synth and will be using the machine mainly for experimental music.

forget the big guys and go with jj.

jj has added a lot of experimental features so i think you'd do better riding an os on the cutting edge vs. an os pandering to a 20 year strong fan base.

There isnt a JJOS for the 5K though, is there? This is one of my reservations about buying it. I want the synth but don't want to be restricted to an Akai OS.

looks like the ulitmate Q here is JJOS or 5K synth? cant have both because jjos doesnt do 5000. maybe consider the alesis fusion to quinch the 5000 synth thirst. they said its based on that same engine. and geta 2500 with jjos

The main reason I was interested in a 5K was the fact it has everything built in - sampling, synthesis, and a multi-faceted control surface (pads, knobs, sliders). Presently I have an Octatrack and I have used various other synths/modules with it for the synthesis side of things. Whilst it's a nice set up, I'd still rather have one box without having to save two seperate projects and mess about with midi cables etc, plus having more than one machine takes up more desk space and is less portable for playing out live.

Once again, the 5K is another example of a machine that has so much potential to appeal to a wider audience of producers, beyond hiphop/beat makers.

It still lacks a few easily implemented things that make it fall short of being the ultimate standalone box such as various OS/funtionaility omissions and limitations - certain modulation routing options that JJOS has improved on. The 64MB built in RAM still baffles me - RAM is piss cheap these days and has been for several years.

They'd probably sell more units if they spent more time perfecting all aspects of one machine, rather than putting people off by scamming them into buying extra memory - a machine that costs this much should be FULLY equipped.

Just calling their UK tech support put me off - they had ONE guy their to answer MPC related questions - that is appauling, another thing that really concerns me when considering parting with over a thousand UK pounds of my money.

Roland have never got it right either - the MV8800 was mind bogglingly sluggish and again, lacked many features it could have easily had - but for some reason, they gave you 'nearly' everything.

You've all probably noticed over the years that all the major manufacturers cater for particular groups of people - MPCs are predominantly used by hiphop heads, Elektron's are used mostly by electronica/minimal techno heads, and Korg, Roland and Yamaha seem to water down their products for a user base that likes to dabble in various musical styles. But none have really cracked the groovebox thing.

A lot of this is because they focus too much on music, which is a constraint in itself, rather than sound.

Please don't take offence to this, I love the idea of an MPC, but seeing video after video with people making simplistic beats, mostly trying to emulate Pete Rock or Premo, and also videos of Elektron users making the same old 4/4 shit, it really is extremely tedious. If there was a machine that catered for all genres, or rather something that doesn't even consider 'genre' and focusses on totally manipulation of sound per se, this would be less of a problem - people would cross over and be doing more experimental stuff - type in 'MPC experimental' into YouTube and you'll see what I mean.

I have performed this search many times, hoping to find someone using an MPC to create soundscapes or really diverse electronica, and thje results I get back are another beat making video of some guy who thinks he's being diverse just because he's slapped some sci-fi sound effect on top of a breakbeat. That is not what i consider experiemental or diverse.

Even videos of people making hiphop on Elektron machines seem to provoke shock and awe from viewers, when really, it's embarassing that people are so easily influenced into playing it safe and using these boxes in a very narrow way.


I findit odd that not one of these manufacturers have yet to realise what it takes to build a REAL fully fledged workstation.

videos like this on youtube stop me buying the mpc 5000,
are you also having this problem?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIUlrHkj7I8

No, this thread wasn't about 5K malfunctions, I merely needed some advice about the capabilities of a working machine.

yessir slicer you've made some good points. i think the 5k may not be for you.

I can't speak for the 5000 but on the 500 you can use velocity/sample start to real time glitch using the pads. It's probably the same on the 5000.

slicer wrote:

tapedeck wrote:

slicer wrote:I'm mainly interested in the synth and will be using the machine mainly for experimental music.

forget the big guys and go with jj.

jj has added a lot of experimental features so i think you'd do better riding an os on the cutting edge vs. an os pandering to a 20 year strong fan base.

There isnt a JJOS for the 5K though, is there? This is one of my reservations about buying it. I want the synth but don't want to be restricted to an Akai OS.

no there is no jj for the 5k.

did you know that you can put a single cycle (or more) waveform into a sampler and, if it has the right parameters, it will work exactly like a synth?

i think you are putting too much emphasis on this 'synth' inside the 5k. the 'synth' is an oscillator (digital) with some sound shaping tools. you can have an immense array of digital oscillation samples and the even more sound shaping tools with jj.

if you are really doing 'experimental' music - are you trying to work in the same way they did 30 years ago or are you trying to break new ground? jj has features no other sampler has ever had.

that's why i am saying go jj (1k or 2.5k) vs the 5k - which is sort of 'stuck' at the point in time it was released.

i also just read your longer reply, and i have to say, go with jj.

i dont make any hip hop with my mpc. i occasionally make house music. where i have had the most fun with it is jamming in a noise setting or sometimes more ambient.

you have to understand that with a good mpc, the sequencer is SO GOOD it becomes another part of the 'synth' that is the total mpc experience.

i squeeze a lot of synth out of my 2kxl - that machine operates on pre-1998 paradigms (you have to accept that a big company like akai is always behind the cutting edge), but it is so well executed, that i can play it as an instrument if i just get out of the restricted paint-by-numbers mindset that something so popular easily evokes.

i love my xl - but when my good producing partner got a 1k with the most up to date jj, i was blown away. everything i wanted to do with the xl was suddenly available. things i had never even thought of (different pads playing back the sample in different ways in trim mode? genius) were opening my mind on what a wasted resource so much of the mpc is out the box.

the machinedrum has me extremely interested as well - it gives me the same open-ended feeling as my xl, but im finally playing on something from today instead of 15 years ago.

bear in mind the elektron way and the mpc way are VERY VERY different - when you say you want 'one box' and you are coming from an octa, you might be seriously disappointed with ANY mpc. however marrying the two together, you could really have all you need.

Cheers, but again, I don't really need any of the JJOS MPCS as I am mainly interested in the 5K synth and pads . I've had a 1k previously with JJOS and it wasn't enough, it was fun but not deep enough for my needs. If I had one on trial to pair with the OT I'd be interested to see if I could dedicate it to drums whilst the OT handles musical elements and SFX, but I still would prefer a fully programmable synth, as the OT handles drums perfectly (it only lacks MPC style pads).

i hear you, but do you understand what i mean when i say that the sampler engine on most samplers allows then to function like a synth? this is what samplers were originally designed for - to be synths with user-changeable oscillators.

im failing to see what the 5k synth provides you that a single cycle wave in almost any other sampler doesn't.

to me, it seems like a few cycles of waveforms with the soundshaping capabilities of jj are vastly superior to whatever synth the 5k has built in (which is most likely just that - a few digital samples with the same filters etc you can already use on your samples).
maybe the 'synth' in the 5k generates these oscillations more intelligently, but akai isn't exactly known for high quality digital oscillators and i think the trade off to the vastly superior sound shaping synth capabilities of jj would be worth it.

The 5k synth is not based on samples. it uses subtractive synthesis.

From the manual

The MPC5000's synth generates sound by emulating, or "modeling," the behavior of an analog synthesizer. Oscillators generate the raw sounds. The scillators are then fed into the filters, which in turn are fed into the amplifiers. As the signal moves through that basic path, you are able to adjust the mix of the signal at several points, apply various modulations and envelopes, and add effects. In this way, the MPC5000's synth can generate a virtually limitless variety of sounds

as I said its not a super synth but it works out better than most would think.

psr wrote:The 5k synth is not based on samples. it uses subtractive synthesis.

that's cool, but 'based on samples' and 'subtractive synthesis' are not related.

for example, your mpc is a subtractive synthesizer based on samples.
a juno 106 is a subtractive synthesizer based on analog oscillators.

the oscillators in a digital synth can be generated mathematically or based on some sort of sample.

i've never heard anything regarding the quality of the 5k synth oscillators. my point is you get more synthesis power with jj because the sound shaping is superior.
in my mind, the source of the oscillators is irrelevant here when it comes to how far you can take those oscillators with jj.

subtractive synthesis works by taking an oscillator and filtering with envelopes / filters, etc.
whether that oscialltor is generated mathematically, digitally sampled, or analog, it doesn't change that it is subtractive synth.