Should Akai charge a fee for future OS updates?

Askia >>> I was thinking somewhere about half that price.... remember software updates on a PC/Mac can take advantage of newer, better specified hardware - theres no chance for more DSP power in the 5k so its more limited as to what they will be able to achieve... I would expect something pretty special for that sort of price...

Also my £££s dont go as far these days...

Who the **** actually said "yes"?

Dumbass akai operatives.

Gith wrote:Askia >>> I was thinking somewhere about half that price.... remember software updates on a PC/Mac can take advantage of newer, better specified hardware - theres no chance for more DSP power in the 5k so its more limited as to what they will be able to achieve... I would expect something pretty special for that sort of price...

Also my £££s dont go as far these days...

But do we really know the DSP power of the 5K? What if it really could fit the operating system of the Fusion? Although the Fusion didn't appear to do that well, it has some great features. I would pay good money for that.

LvngDead wrote:Who the **** actually said "yes"?

Dumbass akai operatives.

New software developement has to be valued if it's no cheap freeware crap. Would you do good work as a programmer without getting payed for your new developements... ?
Tell me, what would you do?

If buyng an OS makes the support FAR longer than free OS updates (see Roland with the MC 909, who let their users down...) and keep the machine living for years to come, then it's a great idea!!

remember that development will inevitably cause compatibility problems.

even a relatively simple update for the 1000 (1.07 to 2.01, which gave timestretch, move note, and a couple other minor features) caused users to have to adjust their velocity scale on old projects.

development is way more than just adding new features, it also means spending AT LEAST as much time making sure that old stuff works.

ie, you're not just adding more levels on a house, you're having to rebuild the foundations in order to be able to handle the new levels.

They'll never charge money for an update. So, I don't know why I am in this thread. I am out.

Nym wrote:remember that development will inevitably cause compatibility problems.

even a relatively simple update for the 1000 (1.07 to 2.01, which gave timestretch, move note, and a couple other minor features) caused users to have to adjust their velocity scale on old projects.

development is way more than just adding new features, it also means spending AT LEAST as much time making sure that old stuff works.

ie, you're not just adding more levels on a house, you're having to rebuild the foundations in order to be able to handle the new levels.

That is a common problem with any software. People can't expect to open up Pro Tools 8 file in Pro Tools 7 and expect it to work since there is numerous functions that were added. In what I suggest for these new operating systems is that OS 1 projects will always open in OS 2 or 3. But OS 2 and 3 projects will not be fully compatible with OS 1 outside of basic sequences, programs, and sounds. OS 1 users will have to pay to play with the big boys

LvngDead wrote:They'll never charge money for an update. So, I don't know why I am in this thread. I am out.

They haven't done so yet. But as a business, eventually they will have to cease further development of the MPC 5000s OS and start working on a new MPC. If I recall correctly..through the years, MPCs usually receive 2 to 3 years of OS updates. If they started charging for OS updates, they can continue developing the product.

LvngDead wrote:They'll never charge money for an update. So, I don't know why I am in this thread. I am out.

Askia Shaheed wrote:

They haven't done so yet. But as a business, eventually they will have to cease further development of the MPC 5000s OS and start working on a new MPC. If I recall correctly..through the years, MPCs usually receive 2 to 3 years of OS updates. If they started charging for OS updates, they can continue developing the product.

Man they not gonna do that i mean they can't.How would you feel if you have to pay for microsoft service pack 2 or 3.I tell you how you'll be mad and you would go and get a mac,same thing here it would make a bad business.

ToOxSicK wrote:

LvngDead wrote:They'll never charge money for an update. So, I don't know why I am in this thread. I am out.

Askia Shaheed wrote:

They haven't done so yet. But as a business, eventually they will have to cease further development of the MPC 5000s OS and start working on a new MPC. If I recall correctly..through the years, MPCs usually receive 2 to 3 years of OS updates. If they started charging for OS updates, they can continue developing the product.

Man they not gonna do that i mean they can't.How would you feel if you have to pay for microsoft service pack 2 or 3.I tell you how you'll be mad and you would go and get a mac,same thing here it would make a bad business.

You have to stop skimming the thread and actually read it. Where are not talking about service pack 2 or 3. We are talking about Windows Vista. Ok...maybe a bad example, but you should get my point. Bug fixes=FREE. Revamped OS with feature requests=$$$.

Askia Shaheed wrote:
You have to stop skimming the thread and actually read it. Where are not talking about service pack 2 or 3. We are talking about Windows Vista. Ok...maybe a bad example, but you should get my point. Bug fixes=FREE. Revamped OS with feature requests=$$$.

I don't have time to read every post...but i understand what you saying but it doesn't make no sense to me to pay for os update thats all am saying.Secondly i was just making an example how other companies do biz,therefore it would be stupid if they charge us for an update.Anyway i talked to akai today and update will be in soon with new features that people want so there you have it.

master-ceo wrote:I cant believe this thread. Why would you even suggest such a ass-backwards thing. $2,500 usd for a mpc and pay for updates? Are you kidding me?

I agree 100%. Introducing such concept is toxic and it's execution would spell instant death for the 5000. Numark is greedy but probably not that stupid. This in addition to Numark's obligation to those that shelled out $2500 for a box that knowingly had many problems out of the box.

One has to question the motive of such a thread when it's going to read by Numark or affiliates. What's the point of the doing market surveys Akai ?... and it ain't just curiosity.

This thread is hilarious.... Akai will come to an end trying to charge for updates.... Dang i miss the old Akai, when it was serious about beatmaking and production, now its more about accessories and of course competition due to the economy.

However, Updates for Pro Tools, one of the Great DAW's, do not compare as to update to an hardware beat machine, I can name a million and one differences but that would be a waste of my time.

But, paid updates can be incentive, unfortunately, to getting us better systems, in fact, it would make JJ step his game up even more, if he was interested in developing software for the MPC 5000. But the price ideas you were talking about Askia would be ridiculous, Software would definitely rule out future MPC options for consumers

see, I can understand paying extra for something like 8 outs.... actually no. I think you should be paying less for not having 8 outs... not everyone has a multi track recorder, interface or mixer or what ever so 8 outs is something for those who want to take beat making to a different realm.

paying extra for lets say, additional effects would be dumb, because the effects will never be as good as ones on software like pro tools most likely, and they wont sound as good either compared to dedicated rackmount effect units also.

Additional features like beat manipulation capabilities should be a part of the machine period. Everything the machine is capable of doing should be in the machine anyways because they wont charge less for not having them...... they will cut corners and make you pay extra for getting the full potential.

ToOxSicK wrote:

Askia Shaheed wrote:
You have to stop skimming the thread and actually read it. Where are not talking about service pack 2 or 3. We are talking about Windows Vista. Ok...maybe a bad example, but you should get my point. Bug fixes=FREE. Revamped OS with feature requests=$$$.

I don't have time to read every post...but i understand what you saying but it doesn't make no sense to me to pay for os update thats all am saying.Secondly i was just making an example how other companies do biz,therefore it would be stupid if they charge us for an update.Anyway i talked to akai today and update will be in soon with new features that people want so there you have it.

The manual clearly states users’ requests will be added in future operating systems. So it is logical that NAMM is a good time to release a new operating system. I have my fingers crossed.

I respect your opinion but I still don't believe Akai owes people that purchased an MPC 5000 anything more than what it is currently advertised to do. Bug fixes are all we are entitled to. Real-time time stretching and pitch shifting, keygroup sample programs, an Andromeda type synth, 24 tracks of hard disk recording, streaming samples from hard drive, S1000/3000 compatibility, EQs for every sample, VST instrument support, modulation matrix, etc are not what the MP5K is advertised to do. But if they add these types of functions (or anything in the feature request threads), it would take this machine to a new level. I seriously doubt we will ever get these features, but I would pay for it to make it happen.

4dahaterz wrote:This thread is hilarious.... Akai will come to an end trying to charge for updates.... Dang i miss the old Akai, when it was serious about beatmaking and production, now its more about accessories and of course competition due to the economy.

However, Updates for Pro Tools, one of the Great DAW's, do not compare as to update to an hardware beat machine, I can name a million and one differences but that would be a waste of my time.

But, paid updates can be incentive, unfortunately, to getting us better systems, in fact, it would make JJ step his game up even more, if he was interested in developing software for the MPC 5000. But the price ideas you were talking about Askia would be ridiculous, Software would definitely rule out future MPC options for consumers

The old Akai?

1. There was the Akai which had Roger Linn on board. We got the MPC 3000. The internet and this forum were non-existent. Most of you didn't even know what an MPC was and certainly didn't spend $3000 plus for the MPC 3000 and 60.
2. Then there was the Akai without Roger Linn onboard that produced the MPC 2000/2000XL (1997 & 1999) and then MPC 4000. The MPC 2000XL is probably the most popular MPC ever created. The MPC 1000 came out after the MPC 4000 and was the first MPC I didn't like. I am not sure if this was the end of one Akai and the beginning of another.
3. And now you have the Akai that produced the MPC 500, 2500/1000, and the MPC 5000. The MPC 2500 is far superior to the MPC 2000XL. The 2500 came with standard effects and the 10 analog outs as standards, which were options for the 2000XL. Everyone I know that was messing with the 2000XL replaced it with the 2500 years ago. While the MPC 3000 is a solid machine (just received a bug fix and new features), the MPC 2500 with the Akai OS or JJ OS is on another level. The MPC 5000 takes the MPC 2500 design a step further. Plus, you get 10 analog outputs, CF drive, and ADAT output standard when you have to pay for these options on the MPC 4000.

Akai (as well as any other company) has always been about competition. The MPC brand has seen rivals like Emu's SP12/1200, Ensoniq's ASR-X, Yamaha RS 7000, and Roland's MV-8000/8800. Akai has been doing this for 22 years plus and still developing MPCs, the premiere drum pad oriented workstations to date.

OS updates. JJ is a good model for paid OS upgrades. Initially, the OS was free of charge. Forum members started requesting numerous features to be added. JJ provided that service for a fee. Now he just released the third version of his OS. Many people in the forum suggested Akai let him do the OS for the MPC 5000. In fact (as I wrote earlier), if this thread was named "Should Akai Let JJ Do Future Operating Systems?" there would have been a 99% response in favor of this. Gentlemen that is a paid OS...not free. So if this is what most people around here actually wants...then why all the "NO" responses? I think you guys didn't think this out or uninformed.

You have to pay $195 if you want your MPC 60 to receive the MPC 3000 update from Roger Linn. You have to pay $199 to $314 if you want your MPC 3000 upgraded with the Vailixi update. You have to pay $162 to upgrade your MPC 1000/2500 to the JJ OS2XL. Are you guys seeing the pattern? You will eventually have to pay for an OS update because eventually, the products development will be discontinued. This is the old and new Akai. This is no different than any other company. Today, there is no further development to the OS of the MPC 2000/2000XL, and 4000. MPC 2000XL users have been asking JJ for an OS update. But this is not going to happen. Akai MPC 4000 users want Akai to release the source code so a 3rd party can continue its development. It doesn't appear this will ever happen. So why not continue what others have been successful at? I would pay to keep the development of the MPC 5000 going. Voting 'No" for paid OS updates is a vote for no more OS updates in 2 to 3 years for the MPC 5000. Think about it. Roland MV-8000 users would love for it to receive the OS update of the MV-8800. But it won't happen because Roland thinks it would hurt sales of the MV-8000. And they certainly won't let a 3rd party work on upgrading the OS of there recent products. Roland has always been about making money off of overpriced accessories....getting a little off track now...

Prices of updates. As I pointed out above, $162 to $300 is the price of OS updates for previous MPCs (MPC 60, 1000, 2500, and 3000). $199 for an MPC 5000 OS 2 is reasonable. $399 to include the Fusion operating system in the MPC 5000 is reasonable. The fact of the matter, the MPC 5000 will receive OS updates based off of user feedback....but it will not receive an OS update that includes all the suggestions in the feature request threads. It will certainly not receive the OS of the Alesis Fusion. So if these are the features people want, why would you not be willing to pay for it? Paid OS updates are the only way you will get these features. If you don't want these updates, then simply use the Akai OS 1 which includes its current feature set and bug fixes.

*Update- I revamped the Poll. The results of the previous poll was 70% in favor of free OS updates only. The new Poll asks if you want to use OS 1 which is free or a suggested OS 2 or 3 which you pay for. You can only vote once and can change your vote if you choose.

Askia Shaheed wrote:

4dahaterz wrote:This thread is hilarious.... Akai will come to an end trying to charge for updates.... Dang i miss the old Akai, when it was serious about beatmaking and production, now its more about accessories and of course competition due to the economy.

However, Updates for Pro Tools, one of the Great DAW's, do not compare as to update to an hardware beat machine, I can name a million and one differences but that would be a waste of my time.

But, paid updates can be incentive, unfortunately, to getting us better systems, in fact, it would make JJ step his game up even more, if he was interested in developing software for the MPC 5000. But the price ideas you were talking about Askia would be ridiculous, Software would definitely rule out future MPC options for consumers

The old Akai?

1. There was the Akai which had Roger Linn on board. We got the MPC 3000. The internet and this forum were non-existent. Most of you didn't even know what an MPC was and certainly didn't spend $3000 plus for the MPC 3000 and 60.
2. Then there was the Akai without Roger Linn onboard that produced the MPC 2000/2000XL (1997 & 1999) and then MPC 4000. The MPC 2000XL is probably the most popular MPC ever created. The MPC 1000 came out after the MPC 4000 and was the first MPC I didn't like. I am not sure if this was the end of one Akai and the beginning of another.
3. And now you have the Akai that produced the MPC 500, 2500/1000, and the MPC 5000. The MPC 2500 is far superior to the MPC 2000XL. The 2500 came with standard effects and the 10 analog outs as standards, which were options for the 2000XL. Everyone I know that was messing with the 2000XL replaced it with the 2500 years ago. While the MPC 3000 is a solid machine (just received a bug fix and new features), the MPC 2500 with the Akai OS or JJ OS is on another level. The MPC 5000 takes the MPC 2500 design a step further. Plus, you get 10 analog outputs, CF drive, and ADAT output standard when you have to pay for these options on the MPC 4000.



Prices of updates. As I pointed out above, $162 to $300 is the price of OS updates for previous MPCs (MPC 60, 1000, 2500, and 3000). $199 for an MPC 5000 OS 2 is reasonable. $399 to include the Fusion operating system in the MPC 5000 is reasonable. The fact of the matter, the MPC 5000 will receive OS updates based off of user feedback....but it will not receive an OS update that includes all the suggestions in the feature request threads. It will certainly not receive the OS of the Alesis Fusion. So if these are the features people want, why would you not be willing to pay for it? Paid OS updates are the only way you will get these features. If you don't want these updates, then simply use the Akai OS 1 which includes its current feature set and bug fixes.

Actually, Akai went bankrupt right after development of the MPC 4000 and the MPC 1000 was actually developed under the new Akai. And as far as MPC's go bro, this aint nonthin new for me, i've had the MPC 3000(which my friend has now) MPC 2000XL which is my most favorite and still the go to guy, and now the 5000(which i can say i was stupid for investing in) reason being because people will ask this question, would be because everything I do in a MPC which is basically drum patterns with samples can be done in my 2000XL or better yet a 4000(i mean if yall can make the machine load up at least 512MB of memory, then i would have actually feel more like I gotten more out of the machine(because in actuality, speaking with Akai tech support in advance before i bought the machine, i was told the reason for the small RAM was because the harddrive was streaming samples, meaning the 192MB wasnt really an issue).

Anyway, back to the main issue 1). This Akai is not like the old Akai(Roger Linn was your answer to that) 2). This would be a good opportunity to really test the market, especially due to the economy at this point to put an update out for $399, maybe after Obama has brought us out of this Recession. 3). Still even then, that would be stupid to spend that much in addition for that on an MPC when you can get software overall that can give you more then that for much cheaper. You can dang near do all the things in 2 pieces of software, a Midi Controller drum pad, and a brand new computer running Pro Tools for under $2000, oh, and a Midi Keyboard Controller for $150 more, and thats breaking the bank.

Im sorry but im starting to get like some of these other cats, Akai is pushing it. I mean, im cool with buying an upgrade, but the price needs to be reasonable and competitive. I dont care how much JJ is selling his for, this $hit keeps getting ridiculous, the MPC 5000 will be on ebay for sale, and ill be happy producing my original way wit my 2000XL.

By the way, Pro Tools 8, Ill keep buying their upgrades, cause its actually worth the mark up. You actually get more audio tracks (up to 48 simultaneous stereo or mono tracks) than previously to create larger, more complex mixes. Pro Tools 8 comes fully packed with over 70 groundbreaking virtual instruments, effects, and utility plug-ins, and over 8 GB of audio loops to jump-start your creativity. NOW THIS IS WORTH THE $150LE US DOLLOARS AND $250HD US DOLLARS. Now compare that to any paid update from Akai for an MPC, and thats just the small info on it.