Opinion on the Synth of the 5000

Onkobu wrote:

4dahaterz wrote:install via USB cable

How do I do that? Installation instructions included in the archive don't mention that.

yeah, actually, that wont work... sorry, but you can go get a lil CF card, the size, big enough to store the update on for under 10 bucks... although i can understand you wouldnt wanna pay extra for something that should have been included

Onkudu - yeah I know I would not perform with this thing live iether. not yet anyway, once it's stable., then we are talking.

I think that is the only downside of the synth, no preview button. You have to load the whole set like a program to see if you like the sound. I hope they fix this issue on the next OS

funniest quote ever, the 5K is like hitting the gas on a car & it honks the horn, ahahaahahahaha.

I know it's not kind to re-activate past threads, but I found the time to try that synth thing in detail. The most important happened near the end of my synth practice: Why do all my patches sound...cheesy or cheep, like being recorded from a Nintendo Entertainment System? So I decided to load some of the builtin presets (Disk Mode->Load->ROM...) and the same: no matter which folder I chose: cheesy and cheap.

The worst thing: Basically this synth consists of no filters (even my Wavestation has a better filter though it's not able to resonate/ self oscillate), you can't use them for any sort of subtractive synthesis except cheesy Nintendo Game's ones. Not that bad but weird: with Ring Modulation active your 3rd VCO is gone, can't hear it anymore, silent, Ring Mod sound with windy noise in the background, no chance. And the waveforms: forget them, all of them. Even the sine wave makes clicks and noises when processed through filters (no sync nor ring mod applied, just plain sine wave). And what the hell is a stereo spread control? Oh, you will need it, cheesy sounds turn into quite acceptable ones if you stereo spread some.

The modulation matrix is worth nothing, except the basic things like vibrato on VCO1 and ENV on filter and/or VCO1. Why isn't it possible to also LFO the other VCOs? And I definitely want to have two different envelopes on two different VCOs.

It's only strength: Postprocess with effects, resample and use as sample. (It's even impossible to have 4 monophone synth instances with 4 different programs or layer the synth's voices in some way or make use of all it's polyphonic power with only one program at a time. Even my Wavestation, built in 1991, is capable of layering different patches/programs by reducing polyphony.)

I also own two really cheap Novation A Stations, if you have the chance to hear one of these or even can buy one: Do it, and route everything you'd like to have created by a synth through these (Their effect section sucks too, but at least you get a minimal modulation matrix and 3 oscillators which always make some real noise even if two synced and ring mod'ed).

who in the world says there's something wrong with cheezy nintendo sounds?!? .....or even the best of all cheezy nintendo sound makers in the world!??!??! .....maybe i should turn the radio off, ...because the radio sometimes makes me believe that people actually 'like' these sounds.
...its all so confusing.


-alsol, ....i totally disagree with you, ....dig deeper, ...mainly because at some point i had already posted a thread on my own discoveries, ...including how i achieved 'very' organic sounds from this synth.

...you can make it work for you, ...but you have to dig deeper into it, ...like actually open the 5000 up, ...find the synth section, ......and physically crawl into that place, ...and stay there until you truly understand it, ....at that point, almost any synth in the world become unstoppable.

"learn your equipment" - is one of the best lessons i've ever heard.

Yeah, and you can make a trashcan sound good if you play with it long enough. That isn't the point. It should not take so much effort to make a good synth sound good. It's okay if you play with it long enough means it isn't that good. Either it sounds bomb without the excuses or it don't. And if it don't then I would have rather had Numark focus on actual MPC features and left the synth out. If the synth isn't stellar, why wast resources putting it in?

^^^ This is all based on personal opinion of course.

I think the internal synth is a cool feature and the sounds that can be created are very useable IMO.

One area which is causing some frustration is the lack of 'preview' feature where complete banks need to be loaded in order to preview each synth program.

I think Akai will put that one right in due course?

I am far from an expert on synths so I have know input. But, I would love to see some tutorials on how to get the most out of the 5Ks synth. Akai? Tutor? Anyone?

It's basic substractive synthesis a la the Roland Jupiter 8, Minimoog, Prophet 5, Oberheim OB8. This isn't a Korg Triton or DX7. Do a search on the web for subtractive sysnthesis. You should come up with ALOT of info. I find that modulation routings can create interesting sounds. If your just going to run a saw wave thru the amp envelope, then you aren't going to come up with anything interesting.

zuckwheat wrote:It's basic substractive synthesis a la the Roland Jupiter 8, Minimoog, Prophet 5, Oberheim OB8.

Don't ever again write these names in the same sentence with the builtin MPC synth. If I switch on ring mod and loose the third VCO it's still subtractive synthesis, but you can never add a windy noise to your ringmod sound, NEVER, not even by crawling into the circuits.

And to finally close this thread from my side: Go to your local music device dealer and have a look at the smallest synths you can find (like a Kaossilator or a Waldorf blofeld) and turn just a single knob - way more than the builtin Nintendo engine of the MPC.

And don't ever call this a synth at all, it's not possible to modulate VCO2 or 3's pitch with any of the available sources, neither envelope nor LFO and this is stupid. As said before, I own really cheap Novation A-Stations (and played with a Kaossilator and a blofeld) and there's way more sound editing possible. And to repeat myself (maybe until the last recognizes): take two totally different synth presets from the ROM and just load and play them...they sound very similar but not in the way a Moog sounds like a Moog, more like a Gameboy sounds like Gameboy. (If one dares to compare the Prophet with *this*, just have a look at the modulation matrix of this vintage monster and the spare guts of the MPC's synth...you could emulate four MPC synths with a Prophet.)

And to place a last hate-statement: Try to layer that "synth" or "split keyboard" it. Even back in 1981 synths were capable of that.

I'll file some more comparison facts here: http://onkobutanaake.de/musik/synth_vergleich.html including some short howtos and samples to prove, that the synthesizer has nothing hidden deeply in the virtual circuits that could save it from being bashed.

Onkobu, thanks. You went all out giving us an example. Post your findings in the feature request threads and email Akai if you want to see improvements in the 5Ks synth.

As an owner of an access virus TI I should say that the MPC5000 synth is pretty lousy. But I am not going to do that.
Sure, all VA synths there are on the martket are better than this one. But is not the way you should look at it.
It has the basiscs you need for an alternative to samples of synths of having to bring your synth to the stage.
It has 3 VCO's, a filter in various modes, the classic VCO VCA LFO and VCF functions. Nothing special, but nothing bad either. It is jus very basic.

Some drawbacks:
- very basic implementation, does not compete with a stand alone VA synth.
- when you change parameters while playing, it is clicking. Something RA (Real Analogue) synths don't do of course.
- not very intuitive to programm, you have to go through some tabs. Though it is the best you can have without changing the basic design of the MPC concept.

So here are the good things:
- You have some besic synth sounds
- 3 VCO's
- ring mod
- the filter is OK
- you can add MPC effects to it witch makes the sound much more interesting.
- eg. I like to add a deep bassline, with just a sine wave. I don't want to sample a synth or bring one with me.

What I like about the synth, besides the nice parameter layout with the MPC knobs and faders, is, that it sounds sweet to my ears in a positive, lovely way. The synth does not "scream" or hurt my nerves like most cheap VA/plug-in synths.
It reminds me a bit of my Jupiter 6 when it comes to spacy sounds.

hi all,
as a new MPC5000 owner I was a bit sceptical about the synth after all the bashing and I certainly did not buy it because of that feature.
but I'm quite surprised by that synth. it gives a certain "simple" sound in seconds where it needs lots of editing on machines like eg. a Virus TI. the filters are nice (esp. Model 2) and - hit me - I think it sounds quite analogue!
I quite like it for pads and poly sounds with lots of grit and added noise. I won't use it much for basses I guess since I have far better options there.

what I don't understand is why Akai does not allow to route samples into the synth engine like you can do in the synth of the Roland MV.