New MPC5000 at NAMM...

*bumping this to the top of the forum*

alpha80 wrote:There are a few sequencing things they could add in an OS update (independent track lengths, recordable mutes in song mode, linear view mode in sequence edit and song mode [this may be limited by a monochrome low-res screen])...
[b]...but be real, answer me, Do you honestly think they could add any of these with an OS update, if so let me know which ones you think could be in an OS update:

1. 24-bit, great sounding A/D & D/A converters (nope)

PersonallyI don't think it makes any difference in an MPC. They have their own sound. When I had the 4000 I was using 24bit at first, but to be honest I couldn't notice much difference if any.. Sounded great regardless. Korg's mega expensive Oasys is only 16bit. Much of my all time favourite music mostly from the 90's was all 16bit.. Classic albums have been made on 12bit samplers.. You get the idea. Consumers aren't gonna know.

2. SMPTE (nope)

It would only add to the cost.. Seriously, how many people still use SMPTE? Video edit suites don't even use it anymore

3. Multis

One less complication. Simpler without them, as you just select whatever program you want to use per track.

4. Keygroup programs (doubtful)

In the MPC4000 I believe these were midi based, which could explain the sloppy timing. Personally I think it's better off without them to ensure compatibility with the 500, 1000 and 2500. Regardless, key mapped AKP programs can easily be converted to MPC programs using Blue Box software.

5. Program Modulation matrix for the sampler, or the sh!tty VA synth

Would be nice, but I doubt too many people would use it.

6. More Polyphony (128 @44k, nope) [64 voices drop down if you use internal FX]

Additional polyphony could possibly affect the timing. If you're maxing out 64 voices, your music would be sounding way too cluttered anyway. Try the 'less is more' approach and keep some space in your arrangement. Remember 4 layer programs still only use 1 voice, not like older samplers where 3 layer programs would use up 3 voices.

7. Realtime timestretch on those audio/sample tracks (not lame patched phrase)

Could be good if it's done properly.. But with what's already there including the synth, 8 tracks of hard disk recording etc, I wouldn't miss it. Most realtime timestretch like in Kontact doesn't sound that good.

8. Auditioning keygroups from HD w/ streaming (promised on 4k)

Just request it for a future update. Sample auditioning was eventually added to the 4000.

9. AK.SYS (the most important imho) Why they deaded Ak.Sys IDK ? USB 2.0 w/ Ak.Sys would've been almost like having Plug-ins in the box, swapping back&forth fastfastfast

AkaiSys was a pain in the butt.. It continually crashed, used it's own browser for transferring sounds which never displayed them alphabetically or in order, and would even crash whilst transferring them. I personally much prefer the external USB store device way of transferring sounds. Much simpler and it works flawlessly. As for the sound editing part, there's no point on the 5000 with qlinks controlling everything.

10. Program compatability with the MPC-4000 (nope, only 4 banks even if they up the sampling rate, and bring keygroups)

The MPC4000 used the AKP format which made it incompatible with just about every other current MPC. I couldn't load anything from my 500 into the 4000. Just convert AKP's using Blue box.

11. As many MIDI tracks as the 4000 (2wice what the 5000 has)

There's 64! What kind of music do you need more than 64 midi tracks for? I don't ever remember going over even 32 tracks when I had the 4000. Even then I was deleting a few to simplify things

12. More RAM capability (in an OS update??? HAHAHAHAHA yeah right)

For an MPC it's still plenty.

At first I wasn't so sure about this MPC5000, but after reading the manual I think it's pretty damn well designed unit. Even if just for the VA synth. I mean, they give you a bunch of different modelled filters, 3 oscillators per voice, there's PWM, ring mod, 3 noise types, up to 8 pole filter cutoff. So what if it's digital? So are the Nord Lead, Korg MS2000, Access Virus and dozens of others, all of which still sound great. Compatibility with the 1000, 2500 and 500 is nice.. Means when I take my MPC500 out and record some tracks, I could then load them into the 5000. This was never possible with the 4000, even after a few format conversions. Might just seem like a bad case of gear lust, but I'm keen. Could take quite a while to save for though

illiac wrote:The more I think about this machine, the more I think that I would buy an MV8800 instead, if I were seriously considering it. [...]

In reality, I think a MacBook Pro (and/or peripherals to make it a complete system, like audio interface, etc.) is a much better investment for any musician these days. Pick up an MPD32 or other controller for making beats.
-illiac

You ever considered that there maybe people who do not want to use a computer for midi sequencing???

I was thinking of different studio setups. The software based was my first one with Ableton Suite 7, AKAI MPD, controller keyboard, Native Kontakt and Native Komplete Classic....but now I read loads of comments on audio interfaces and the fact that even the really wicked TC Studio Konnekt 48 has driver issues and does not run very stable really makes me wanna puke my guts up!

So now I consider hardware, especially for sequencing. Roland MV 8800 is nice, but to be onest, i need more than 2 MIDI outs and only a stereo out (you hardly get the 6 out expansion anymore) sucks big time. I tried it so often in a store, but I was faster bangin a 4 bar loop on a 2500 than on this thing and it sounded better. So I think the 5k will suit me more workflow wise. The MV in the end is kind of a stripped down basic cubase with sampler. I don't wanna stare at a monitor or use a mouse.

I might get a Pro Tools later for tracking and mixing. But when I think of it I might as well get an Alesis HD 24X or similar unit to have rock solid recording without issues. I could still edit single files with a editing software on my Mac (so my G4 iMac would be enuff for that) and still have 24 outputs for analogue mixdown. (ProTolls LE only has 24 tracks either, right?)

I know I have kind of a special opinion on that, but I would always sacrifice some more convenient feature to get a rock solid workflow from scratch to mixdown. Will be a lot more expenisve though, but I think, as Avene mentioned the less is more approach, I will start concentrating on the essence of my music instead of figuring out which of my one cazillion dynamics plug-ins I might wanna use on that drumtrack....

Just my point of view!

Okay, checked it, PT LE has 32 audio tracks ....anyway.

I switched from the 4000 to the 8800. There's is no way anyone can get a hold of the MV's power in a short audition. The main problem is that most have to get used to fact that the MV is not a MPC in any regard.

NNITRED over at MVN made a good point back when I was considering playing with the MV. " Nobody expects a new synth to operate like their old one because it has keys. For some reason, MPC users expect the MV to behave like a a MPC because it has pads." The workflow of the MV is far smoother than that of my old 4000.

I missed the FX system but other that, the 8800 had the 4000 collecting dust. Nobody ever walked up to the MPC and banged out beats without knowing what they were doing and nobody's gonna do it on a MV.

The scrolling grid/block system is used by Akai , Roland, and Yamaha so it's nothing new and pretty much standard.

A response, not an argument.

moyphee wrote:I switched from the 4000 to the 8800. There's is no way anyone can get a hold of the MV's power in a short audition. The main problem is that most have to get used to fact that the MV is not a MPC in any regard.

NNITRED over at MVN made a good point back when I was considering playing with the MV. " Nobody expects a new synth to operate like their old one because it has keys. For some reason, MPC users expect the MV to behave like a a MPC because it has pads." The workflow of the MV is far smoother than that of my old 4000.

I missed the FX system but other that, the 8800 had the 4000 collecting dust. Nobody ever walked up to the MPC and banged out beats without knowing what they were doing and nobody's gonna do it on a MV.

The scrolling grid/block system is used by Akai , Roland, and Yamaha so it's nothing new and pretty much standard.

A response, not an argument.

A response not an argument. I walked up to an MV and banged out beats without knowing anything about it. Why? Because I used MPCs for over a decade. The MVs layout is pretty much identical to the MPCs. The MENUs are different but if you read, you can figure it out easily. I just found that is easier and smoother to get around on MPCs (excluding the MPC 4000). All the essential things you need is on the main screen. The MPC has plenty of menus that are isolated to specific functions and are called up instantly. I believe the MPCs are as close to perfect as you can get with these types of products. It would be nice to keep adding functions as long as it doesn't mess up the smooth work flow. This is the main reason why I am excited about the MPC 5000.

ok.

NguoiDuc wrote:

illiac wrote:The more I think about this machine, the more I think that I would buy an MV8800 instead, if I were seriously considering it. [...]

In reality, I think a MacBook Pro (and/or peripherals to make it a complete system, like audio interface, etc.) is a much better investment for any musician these days. Pick up an MPD32 or other controller for making beats.
-illiac

You ever considered that there maybe people who do not want to use a computer for midi sequencing???

I was thinking of different studio setups. The software based was my first one with Ableton Suite 7, AKAI MPD, controller keyboard, Native Kontakt and Native Komplete Classic....but now I read loads of comments on audio interfaces and the fact that even the really wicked TC Studio Konnekt 48 has driver issues and does not run very stable really makes me wanna puke my guts up!

So now I consider hardware, especially for sequencing. Roland MV 8800 is nice, but to be onest, i need more than 2 MIDI outs and only a stereo out (you hardly get the 6 out expansion anymore) sucks big time. I tried it so often in a store, but I was faster bangin a 4 bar loop on a 2500 than on this thing and it sounded better. So I think the 5k will suit me more workflow wise. The MV in the end is kind of a stripped down basic cubase with sampler. I don't wanna stare at a monitor or use a mouse.

I might get a Pro Tools later for tracking and mixing. But when I think of it I might as well get an Alesis HD 24X or similar unit to have rock solid recording without issues. I could still edit single files with a editing software on my Mac (so my G4 iMac would be enuff for that) and still have 24 outputs for analogue mixdown. (ProTolls LE only has 24 tracks either, right?)

I know I have kind of a special opinion on that, but I would always sacrifice some more convenient feature to get a rock solid workflow from scratch to mixdown. Will be a lot more expenisve though, but I think, as Avene mentioned the less is more approach, I will start concentrating on the essence of my music instead of figuring out which of my one cazillion dynamics plug-ins I might wanna use on that drumtrack....

Just my point of view!

I don't find anything in your post to disagree with. I have an HD24XR and of course the MPC4000, and up until very recently I sequenced everything on the MPC and tracked it all into the HD24. I still like that way of working, and my hat's off to anyone who likes to work that way, or any other way that makes them productive.

(btw the HD24XR is a great piece of gear, and if you get an audio interface with ADAT in/out, you can use the its AD/DA converters, which are superb, when you work in the DAW.)

I switched somewhat reluctantly to Logic 8 recently, mostly so that I could more quickly and easily give my tracks to the other engineers who work on them. Rather than sequencing on the MPC and moving everything over to a DAW, I sequence in Logic in the first place. I still do my drum tracks on the MPC because I don't get anything like the same feel and groove from Logic. Not that it can't be done, it's just that I love the workflow of the MPC, and the sounds and grooves I get out of it, and so I'm reluctant to move this part of my work to Logic.

Anyway, I can easily imagine that the MPC5000 would be the perfect piece of gear for someone. If I didn't have gigabytes of stuff built up for the Akai Z engine / MPC4K I would probably take a hard look at it myself. But I'm a bit put off by 16-bit sampling. Again, I don't want to talk anyone else out of it! But I have gigabytes of 24-bit samples loops etc that I don't want to dither down to 16 bits just to switch from MPC4K to MPC5K; doesn't make sense to me. It would make more sense for me to go completely ITB.

'Bout now Blue Haze is gonna get on my *ss for talking too much, so I'll wrap it up.

-illiac

You alright illiac

I have no problem with members discussing comparisons in this particular topic. Carry on.

Yeah, illiac. I'm seriously considering to get that HD 24X and since it has a Firewire option I think I would just transfer the waves of the tracks to my Mac and import it into a DAW, if I start feelin I need more editing or automation capabilities.

But since I like it pretty raw a set up of an MPC + analogue synth (Studio Electronics SE 1X )+Multitrack+Board+Lexicon(whatever model)+one nice compressor will do a pretty good job for me!!!

I don't mind to have my tracks perfectly produced till the end, so that will pretty much do a good job for me. But it's always a matter of taste. So if someone does drums on an MPC, multis in EXS 24, synth lines with 25 VSTs and one Motif and does final mixng with a studer reel-to-reel and the music is still bang....man, why argue about how he did it. I know some crazy guy who only works with Reason and Max MSP and DOESN'T use any controllers, so he draws his melodies into the piano roll editor....but he's havin releases on labels and is supported by UK top DJ Giles Peterson. (Daisuke Tanabe...check him on myspace)

Sorry for the long post!

illiac wrote:
Again, I don't want to talk anyone else out of it! But I have gigabytes of 24-bit samples loops etc that I don't want to dither down to 16 bits just to switch from MPC4K to MPC5K; doesn't make sense to me.

I think everyone can respect that. But why write it in every MPC 5000 thread if not to talk people out of buying it? Why put so much energy into a product that you don't want?

We get it already.

Bo back to the beginning of this thread and re-read. I think practically every reason for not buying this new MPC has been said already. I guess there is nothing else to talk about in the MPC 4000 forum. Believe me, I understand

OJ Reem wrote:I think everyone can respect that. But why write it in every MPC 5000 thread if not to talk people out of buying it? Why put so much energy into a product that you don't want?

We get it already.

JeeROm,

Maybe it's because it pisses me off to see you here, thinly disguised, spewing megabytes of nonsense. every time a new MPC drops. only kidding haha no need to PM me.

-illiac

NguoiDuc wrote:Yeah, illiac. I'm seriously considering to get that HD 24X and since it has a Firewire option I think I would just transfer the waves of the tracks to my Mac and import it into a DAW, if I start feelin I need more editing or automation capabilities.

You can't go wrong with the HD (get the XR model, it's def. worth it). And the FW attachment. You'll be really happy with the sound. Make sure you plan for some way to sum all those tracks while you're working. The HD puts out 24 separate balanced signals, but has no mixing / summing.

The MPC5000 sure looks great. (Just keeping it on topic. )

-illiac

illiac wrote:

OJ Reem wrote:I think everyone can respect that. But why write it in every MPC 5000 thread if not to talk people out of buying it? Why put so much energy into a product that you don't want?

We get it already.

JeeROm,

Maybe it's because it pisses me off to see you here, thinly disguised, spewing megabytes of nonsense. every time a new MPC drops. only kidding haha no need to PM me.

-illiac

Ahh....
Why does it bother you that someone would be in an MPC forum hyping a MPC?

I don't work for Akai and I am not selling MPCs (unless you want to buy my MPC 2500 minus that CD Rom drive of course ). But really, you are taking this personally and it isn't about YOU. While I don't own the MPC 5000, what I write is only based on the manual which is nearly identical to the MPC 2500 with a alot of extras. It also has some features of the reported new JJ OS..which has me raising any eyebrow. I am beginning to suspect that the JJ OS2 is actually a "beta" of the MPC 5000 OS.

So in closing, I will keep talking about the MPC 5000 whether it bothers you or not...and even more so when I can finally get my hands on one. I can't wait to have a large community of MPC 5000 users to have nice exchanges between.