Shipping soon...?

kebzer wrote:I have a 2kxl which I trade for nothing in this world. I have compared it side to side with a 2500 for more than 5 hours and besides the process speed, the 2500 is a plain piece of ****. The sequencer sucks even more than Reason, the pads are exactly the same like the MPD24 which I owned before my 2kxl and all the whistles around it are not enough to match the middle range output and the swing of the 2kxl.

And the above are not assumptions based on written comments in forums but actuals facts derived from my personal experience with both machines. Sure I admit that's all these are subject to everyone's perception as what swing and sound is all about. However, it doesn't change my view towards all new school machines, even the 4000.

So, I would definetelly benefit from an OS update as way too many beatmakers out there would also do. Cause we are dedicated to our machines because of certain, undisputed facts. The rest of you can continue to argue over the 4000 vs 5000 and their sampling capabilities, even though most of your loops are coming straight from your PC's in mp3 format.

I compared the MPC 2000XL and the 2500 for several years. In fact, many of the people that own the MPC 2500 were previous MPC 2000SL users. It's obvious you don't know the ins and outs of all the features of the 2500. Feature by feature, the MPC 2500 improves on all of the 2000XLs. It is not even close. The sequencer of the 2500 is nearly identical to the XL but adds some futher enhancements. There are plenty of threads in the MPC 2500 that compares these two models together by people that are knowledgable of both units. I

^^^ He is not arguing that the 2500 cant do more hes just saying for what he needs and finds important ( the feel and use of the sequencer ) the added bonus of the 2500 are not worth buying it. I would take a 3000 over a 5000 in looks and feel any day but as for the os and processing yeah the 5000 is going to have more. It comes at a price that its not a roger design and its made by little Fin Quan in china out of plastic.

Dj Solace wrote:^^^ He is not arguing that the 2500 cant do more hes just saying for what he needs and finds important ( the feel and use of the sequencer ) the added bonus of the 2500 are not worth buying it. I would take a 3000 over a 5000 in looks and feel any day but as for the os and processing yeah the 5000 is going to have more. It comes at a price that its not a roger design and its made by little Fin Quan in china out of plastic.

Actuall he said the 2500 is a piece of sh!t and that the sequencer is horrible when the the sequencer and "feel" are nearly identical. This shows me he didn't actually use the MPC 2500.

The 2000XL is made of metal and plastic. The entire front part of the 2000XL is plastic as well as the screen. With the exception of the data wheel (which is still plastic), all the buttons and knobs are exactly the same. The 2000XL isn't any more robust than the 2500 minus the metal on the bottom of both units. The 2000XLs appears to be heavier. All of these models were made in China. The first models of the MPC 2000 were the last made in Japan and even it wasn't better designed than the later MPCs.

wow your a touchy little lady are you lol . Get over it not every one is going to want to use these new kia mpc models. At least i know if i smack you in the face with my 2k its not going to fall apart Now have a nice day im done with you exit stage right

The MPC 2000 forum is the other way

But when you decide to finally upgrade, I am sure the growing MPC 5000 nation will welcome you back with open arms. Just buy an MPC 5000 and be merry...there is no need for the hostility/anger. It will be like smoking a blunt together

LOL i never said im not going to buy one i think its got a great feature set and is a pretty good stand alone unit i will just have to wait and see how ease it is to get around and how it feels and what bugs the os has. I am not hating on the machine im just saying it is what everyone says a very cheap and plastic looking peice of gear. I am all for whatever gear makes music production faster and keeps me moving forward nothing sucks more than loosing the train of production due to having to dig through screens or not having some function availiable right away.

OJ Reem wrote:

McSmooth wrote:As a synth enthusiast, I like to be able to apply synth techniques to samples. The mod matrix on the Z engine is great for the ultimate customization. Unfortunately your average chop-up-loops-joe will never understand how that works. If you honestly know and use your 4k, I'm not sure why you say the 5000 has a better interface... More q-links?

Mod Matrix? Are you talking about the MPC 4000s Matrix Display?

That comment shows you have obviously never seriously used a 4k/Z or bothered to look through the whole manual to see what it is capable of. No, I'm not talking about the display (although it is nice), the modulation matrix is one of the most powerful sampling upgrades to the S5/6000 engine. All modulation on the MPC5000's sampler is hardwired. But again, average joes wouldn't know what to do with this anyway.

Dj Solace wrote:LOL i never said im not going to buy one i think its got a great feature set and is a pretty good stand alone unit i will just have to wait and see how ease it is to get around and how it feels and what bugs the os has. I am not hating on the machine im just saying it is what everyone says a very cheap and plastic looking peice of gear. I am all for whatever gear makes music production faster and keeps me moving forward nothing sucks more than loosing the train of production due to having to dig through screens or not having some function availiable right away.

We are talking MPCs here right? All MPCs in recent years are mostly metal with platic sides and LCD screens...in an era where most keyboards are compeletly plastic.

The MPC 5000 appears to have the same build as the MPC 2500 which looks plastic until you are up on it in person. As far as bugs, Akai didn't do a bad job of upgrading the operating system for the 2500. The System Test bug was the biggest bug but they quickly fixed that. Then there was the bug which disabled C,D MIDI outs, which many didn't realize that they were not functional. And then there was the bug which added sustain to MIDI sound modules and we couldn't use mute to silence these modules..and then (you get the point).

I am sure that us initial buyers may have to go through the same process unless they give actual users of these MPCs the beta OS. Since we all know this, if you don't want to go through the initial OS issues, just sit it out and keep an eye on the forums.

Mc Smooth,

Please explain to us noobs/average joes (or not) what the modulation matrix is all about and why it is the most powerful upgrade to Akai samplers. Also please give us more detail about the MPC 5000s sampler being hardwired (as it being the same or different than any other Akai sampler) and the pros/cons of it having this implied limitation. This will help us average joes know what to do with it.

OJ Reem wrote:
By the way...please explain how you use multi's and how Akai is missing the point. They seem to be more receptive to the needs of us more modern MPC users. I will drop them a line so we can get what you need into the MPC 5000.

FYI... Before I answer the above question, I wanted to note to you,to not see Positive Critiical Criticism as people being angry. Most if not all of the replies to you, I see people providing positive criticism. They are not saying"the 5000 sucks, and leaving it at that.". They are indicating specific points that the 5000 could have built apon (it's already in the Akai code base) but they chose not to.

Well, if Akai doesn't already know what Multi's are, then we're all out of hope since they "created" them.... but since they appear to have forgotten, based off of their last 4 releases, here's what they do.

1. Store a list of Programs that are actively used
2. Stores MIdi Channel Assignment
3. They can store these program settings independant of what the program uses
3a. Volume Level
3b. Volume Pan
3c Out Settings
3d. WHich FX a program is using
3e.. What the FX Send amount is
4, Which FX are being used
5. FX Settings
6. Tuning of the Program
7. Pirority Level of the Program
8. Stores MIxer Settings
9. Q-Link Settings
10. Q-Link Sequence settings



Now all of these settings are stored in a Multi. And A Multi can be assigned a MIdi Program Change number. So now if I want, I can use a "Program Change Parameter" in a sequence, so when the Sequence changes over, ALL of these settings can be switched over. So song1 or even Sequence 1 can have an entirely different FX, Q-Link Setting, Mixer Levels Settings, FX send settings, then Sequence 2 or Song 2. And when I use "Next Sequence" to switth the sequences, I can have an entirely different setup of the above parameters that would switch instantly. I can even have 4 FX for the first part of my song, and embed a PRogram Change into the Sequence to switch the FX to another 4 different FX in the middle of the song.

If your playing live, this is crucial, though it's fairly crucual in Studio as well.



Cheers,
Dave

renegadebliss wrote:

OJ Reem wrote:
By the way...please explain how you use multi's and how Akai is missing the point. They seem to be more receptive to the needs of us more modern MPC users. I will drop them a line so we can get what you need into the MPC 5000.

FYI... Before I answer the above question, I wanted to note to you,to not see Positive Critiical Criticism as people being angry. Most if not all of the replies to you, I see people providing positive criticism. They are not saying"the 5000 sucks, and leaving it at that.". They are indicating specific points that the 5000 could have built apon (it's already in the Akai code base) but they chose not to.

Well, if Akai doesn't already know what Multi's are, then we're all out of hope since they "created" them.... but since they appear to have forgotten, based off of their last 4 releases, here's what they do.

1. Store a list of Programs that are actively used
2. Stores MIdi Channel Assignment
3. They can store these program settings independant of what the program uses
3a. Volume Level
3b. Volume Pan
3c Out Settings
3d. WHich FX a program is using
3e.. What the FX Send amount is
4, Which FX are being used
5. FX Settings
6. Tuning of the Program
7. Pirority Level of the Program
8. Stores MIxer Settings
9. Q-Link Settings
10. Q-Link Sequence settings



Now all of these settings are stored in a Multi. And A Multi can be assigned a MIdi Program Change number. So now if I want, I can use a "Program Change Parameter" in a sequence, so when the Sequence changes over, ALL of these settings can be switched over. So song1 or even Sequence 1 can have an entirely different FX, Q-Link Setting, Mixer Levels Settings, FX send settings, then Sequence 2 or Song 2. And when I use "Next Sequence" to switth the sequences, I can have an entirely different setup of the above parameters that would switch instantly. I can even have 4 FX for the first part of my song, and embed a PRogram Change into the Sequence to switch the FX to another 4 different FX in the middle of the song.

If your playing live, this is crucial, though it's fairly crucual in Studio as well.



Cheers,
Dave

Good post. So is that the Modulation Matrix?

You can call it Positive Critiical Criticism, but I see just the opposite. Many comments are negative, slanderous, and outright hilarious. I am just calling it like I see it. This has been going on for years in these forums when it wasn't like this before. There is more negative things coming out of this forum than any other.

Back to MPCs and Akai. Akai has had keygroup programming in samplers as long as they produced MPCs. Over the years, they released full fledge standalone samplers and MPCs with limited samplers. The MPC 4000 is the only MPC that has a full fledge sampler. If Akai decided to continue to produce MPCs with limited samplers although they have the technology to do more, there must be some reason. A reason only they know and a choice no one has the right to make for that company...that is unless you have stock in it.

So we are at a cross-roads. We can continue to talk about why it's called the MPC 5000 vs the 3500, why it doesn't have a Z-series sampler, or complain about their support for a 6 yr old product....or we can talk about the new features of the MPC 5000. Either way, it will be fun to read as long as people are being civil. I for one won't be calling people names because I disagree with them.

OJ Reem wrote:
Good post. So is that the Modulation Matrix?

Nope... You asked me about "Multi's". Modulation Matrix is called the "Program Modulation" and is part of the 4000's "Program" features.

A modulation matrix is a standard in the Synthesizer Industry.

It allows you to specify the modulation source, modulation destination, and modulation depth for each of the 64 modulation routings of a program.


Here are the available sources:
MODWHEEL, BEND UP, BEND DOWN, AFT TOUCH, VELOCITY, OFF VELO,
KEYBORD, LFO1, LFO2, AMP ENV, FILT ENV, AUX ENV, CONTROLLER: (lets
you assign a control change), EXT 1-8 (used for Q-Link control), MODWHEEL,
BEND UP, BEND DOWN, EXT 1-8, LFO1, LFO2, CTRL.
Hint: In the case of a modulation source marked with a quarter note ( ), only the value at the moment
that the key is pressed (the moment the note-on is received) is used; any subsequent changes will be ignored. For example if you select BEND as the modulation source, moving the bend wheel after note-on will affect the note that is sounding. However if the modulation source is BEND UP, moving
the bend wheel after note-on will not affect the note that is sounding.
To cancel a modulation source, turn the [JOG] dial all the way to the left so that the field is blank. CONTROLLER and CTRL are sources that let you use an external MIDI controller to control a program. If you select either of these sources, the “>>>” field will change to a numeric input field,
allowing you to specify the control change number (0–127).
EXT 1-8 are sources that let you use the Q-Link knobs/sliders to control a program.


and here's the Destinations:

AMPLITUDE, PAN, PITCH, LFO1 RATE, LFO2 RATE, LFO1 DEPTH, LFO2
DEPTH, LFO1 DELAY, LFO2 DELAY, CUTOFF, RESONANCE, TF CUTOFF 1, TF
RES 1, TF CUTOFF 2, TF RES 2, TF CUTOFF 3, TF RES 3, AMP ENV ATT, AMP
ENV DEC, AMP ENV REL, FILT ENV R1, FILT ENV R2, FILT ENV R4, AUX ENV
R1, AUX ENV R2, AUX ENV R4, ZONE SELECT, ZONE1 LEVEL, ZONE1 PAN,
ZONE1 PITCH, ZONE1 START, ZONE1 FILT (the corresponding destinations are also
available for zones 2–4).



So I can have Both LFO2 and Env 3 controlling my Filter Resonance, and LFO 1 and Env 1 controlling the Resonance.

renegadebliss wrote:

OJ Reem wrote:
Good post. So is that the Modulation Matrix?

Nope... You asked me about "Multi's". Modulation Matrix is called the "Program Modulation" and is part of the 4000's "Program" features.

A modulation matrix is a standard in the Synthesizer Industry.

It allows you to specify the modulation source, modulation destination, and modulation depth for each of the 64 modulation routings of a program.


Here are the available sources:
MODWHEEL, BEND UP, BEND DOWN, AFT TOUCH, VELOCITY, OFF VELO,
KEYBORD, LFO1, LFO2, AMP ENV, FILT ENV, AUX ENV, CONTROLLER: (lets
you assign a control change), EXT 1-8 (used for Q-Link control), MODWHEEL,
BEND UP, BEND DOWN, EXT 1-8, LFO1, LFO2, CTRL.
Hint: In the case of a modulation source marked with a quarter note ( ), only the value at the moment
that the key is pressed (the moment the note-on is received) is used; any subsequent changes will be ignored. For example if you select BEND as the modulation source, moving the bend wheel after note-on will affect the note that is sounding. However if the modulation source is BEND UP, moving
the bend wheel after note-on will not affect the note that is sounding.
To cancel a modulation source, turn the [JOG] dial all the way to the left so that the field is blank. CONTROLLER and CTRL are sources that let you use an external MIDI controller to control a program. If you select either of these sources, the “>>>” field will change to a numeric input field,
allowing you to specify the control change number (0–127).
EXT 1-8 are sources that let you use the Q-Link knobs/sliders to control a program.


and here's the Destinations:

AMPLITUDE, PAN, PITCH, LFO1 RATE, LFO2 RATE, LFO1 DEPTH, LFO2
DEPTH, LFO1 DELAY, LFO2 DELAY, CUTOFF, RESONANCE, TF CUTOFF 1, TF
RES 1, TF CUTOFF 2, TF RES 2, TF CUTOFF 3, TF RES 3, AMP ENV ATT, AMP
ENV DEC, AMP ENV REL, FILT ENV R1, FILT ENV R2, FILT ENV R4, AUX ENV
R1, AUX ENV R2, AUX ENV R4, ZONE SELECT, ZONE1 LEVEL, ZONE1 PAN,
ZONE1 PITCH, ZONE1 START, ZONE1 FILT (the corresponding destinations are also
available for zones 2–4).



So I can have Both LFO2 and Env 3 controlling my Filter Resonance, and LFO 1 and Env 1 controlling the Resonance.

Those functions are not in any MPC in history besides the MPC 4000. So if you no longer can get these funtions in an MPC, what would you use instead?

OJ Reem wrote:
Actuall he said the 2500 is a piece of sh!t and that the sequencer is horrible when the the sequencer and "feel" are nearly identical. This shows me he didn't actually use the MPC 2500.

As of sudden, you know everything about me and that I haven't used a 2500. Well, I wouldn't expect less from a person who is convinced on buying something completely new by just watching promo corporate videos.

Anyway, you think that I lack knowledge or the funds to get something new like a 2500? Man, I just bought an s950, why the **** do I have to argue over this? I know exactly the sound I am looking for and no new school MPC is offering that, period. Now go check on some Premo beats and compare them with your flawless Numark 2500.

kebzer wrote:

OJ Reem wrote:
Actuall he said the 2500 is a piece of sh!t and that the sequencer is horrible when the the sequencer and "feel" are nearly identical. This shows me he didn't actually use the MPC 2500.

As of sudden, you know everything about me and that I haven't used a 2500. Well, I wouldn't expect less from a person who is convinced on buying something completely new by just watching promo corporate videos.

Anyway, you think that I lack knowledge or the funds to get something new like a 2500? Man, I just bought an s950, why the **** do I have to argue over this? I know exactly the sound I am looking for and no new school MPC is offering that, period. Now go check on some Premo beats and compare them with your flawless Numark 2500.

I am simply saying that if you used an MPC 2500 and an XL, you would know that the sequencer is nearly identical. In fact most of the MPCs sequencers are very close. They haven't changed much over the years.

So you just bought a $150 S950 so you can be like Premo? Nothing wrong with that.

OJ Reem wrote:Please explain to us noobs/average joes (or not) what the modulation matrix is all about and why it is the most powerful upgrade to Akai samplers. Also please give us more detail about the MPC 5000s sampler being hardwired (as it being the same or different than any other Akai sampler) and the pros/cons of it having this implied limitation. This will help us average joes know what to do with it.

I'm guessing you don't have any synths (or if you do you are using the presets) as this is a basic concept in synthesis. If so, that is another reason the 5000 will be great for you. Think of how synths started off as modulars with wires all over. You had complete control over what source was plugged to each destination. For example wiring an LFO to filter, an envelope to the amp, and even the keyboard to pitch. All MPCs have some sort of modulation, and the new ones have quite a bit more than before. However it is all hardwired to keep things simple. This is the best for a beginner as all the options are right in front of your face and you do not need to know much about synthesis. With the Z engine, the possibilities are endless as you can 64 modulations of various sources mapped to various destianations at various amounts (bliss listed these in his post). For example, it is possible to make the 4000 play a random of 4 samples set to a pad... a feature Akai is claiming as first ever on the 5000.

Again, I'm not dissing the 5k, just stating some facts since you keep asking questions. It is clearly aimed at a different target market. I see the 5k selling better than the 4k did because of this (most of the power users moved to the computer a long time ago).

Those functions are not in any MPC in history besides the MPC 4000. So if you no longer can get these funtions in an MPC, what would you use instead?

You stick with a 4000, get a Z, find another stand alone sampler that can do the same, or just stick to drum hits and loops and you are good to go on any MPC.