ableton live: multiband dynamics vs eq8 vs eq3 vs 3rd party

so i finally feel like im getting a hang of how to mix and eq properly but ive yet to understand the difference between these different functions on ableton

i've been using multiband dynamics with good results and it just seems more straightforward and seems to allow more control.

plus i dont really understand the whole layout of eq8 with the grid and all that

what do you guys use?

also do you guys think the eq functions on ableton are sufficient? do you use or prefer outside plug-ins to eq? if so which ones?

Multi-band dynamics is a multi-band compressor. So it will compress certain frequencies more than others. It's not really an EQ as such. But it can be used creatively to really squash frequencies beyond all doubt haha.

EQ 3 I think is supposed to colour the sound and give it some "analogue" style harmonics. It's quite useful for making more drastic changes to a sound, a good alternative to using Auto Filter for example. But I haven't used it very much.

EQ 8 is what I use most. It's more clinical, and the visual element lets me be a little bit more accurate. From right to left it shows the frequency spectrum. From top to bottom it will show you how many DB you've cut or boosted.

Down the left hand side you can turn little points on and off. Each of these 8 points will let you affect a frequency band using any one of the 6 EQ modes which are represented by the little symbols underneath. I tend to use all of those options in conjunction apart from the 4th one. I've never really needed to get rid of a frequency in such an extreme way. The rest are all useful and let you create pretty much any EQ curve you could ever possibly need.

I don't use any other EQs in the software world, but I do use the limited knobs on my little Mackie mixer as well as it's low cut switch from time to time.

lol so i should be using eq8 more so?

and ya i guess multiband is more of a compressor but i seem to be getting better results but mostly cuz im not really as familiar with eq8. i'll toy around with it.

thanks for the info.

No no not at all, you use what works for you. At the end of the day EQ3, EQ8 and Auto Filter all more or less do the same thing. It's just that some are more useful for specific tasks than others.

For example if I chose to forget how to beat-match properly and use Ableton for a DJ set, EQ 3 would be quite useful because it's more similar a traditional DJ mixer.

To be honest, personally, I wouldn't be using a multi-band compressor for removing frequencies. I'd rather remove them first, and then if I think I need some compression apply that second.

Usually I work like this:

1. Auto Filter- usually a high pass, to remove any super low cheeky action. Or if I want a very specific frequency I can do the main shaping at this stage.

2. EQ8- to be a little bit more clinical, but sometimes just the Filter is enough. Over EQ-ing is a dangerous habit I'm trying to break.

3. Compression. Only IF the source needs it, or obviously if I'm side-chaining something. Again over compression has been a problem for me at times.

After this it tends to be creative FX or whatever. But in most situations I find it good practice to try and shape the sound as best I can first and foremost so that it fits reasonably well. Especially when using the deadly 'verb, which can be really tricky.

ya i totally understand. i actually want to use a less is more approach to eq'ing which i thought i was doing. had no idea i was applying compression. i guess adding compression after the fact would have been overkill maybe.

its just im not familiar with frequencies at this point other than hi mid low so i have no idea what im tweaking when there's those 4 additional buttons on eq8. but i will play around with it and see what kind of results i get vs what im already doing.

as far as actual compression which function do you use? or does it just depend on whether its drums or whatever else?

Well the clue is in the name mate. Multiband "Dynamics"... you're controlling the dynamic range for the selected frequencies. It's a useful tool to learn how to use though definitely!

Compression after compression can work ok, but you have to remember that it is multiplicative and NOT additive. So for example if you compress:

2:1 and then 10:1 it's actually a ratio of 20:1, not 12.

In other words you multiply the compression ratio, you don't add it up!

Compression is so tricky dude. I'm not sure what you mean by function either? But I use the regular Compression module in Ableton.

The envelope usually depends on the source. Peak is usually my favourite. Opto again I think is supposed to represent some sort of vintage mode. So that can be interesting too.

Attack, release, threshold, ratio, knee and output all depend on the source. For drum sounds I tend to use a hard-knee to make them snap a bit more. Whereas for side-chaining musical sounds I will sometimes use a soft-knee to make the pumping a bit more subtle. Although you can help control that with attack and release times too.

The Model setting I rarely mess with. Although FB can be useful for really squashing the sh*t out of stuff. Another old hardware replication I believe.

Lookahead, again don't really bother. I keep it low.

Makeup gain I tend to use most of the time for drums, although I might nudge the output back a little bit, or ease back on the ratio if they're getting a bit too clicky.

One thing to note, next to the word "Compressor" you will see a little down arrow. That's where you'll find all the Sidechain settings.

Compression is the single most frustrating thing I encounter in producing in ableton. I understand what it is supposed to do, It just doesnt translate into my brain for some reason. Side chain is easy, but multiband just **** with my head

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug02/articles/multiband.asp

Have a read of that Esquilo. I've always found SOS articles to be really useful! But if you have any specific questions regarding Ableton I will do my best to help you out sir.

Also, there's a video on dubspot right now about the ping pong delay.

If you right click the title bar of that device you will find three options:

Repitch
Fade
Jump

Choose repitch, put some audio through it and cycle between the delay length (1,2,3,4,5,6,8,16) and you'll notice you can achieve a faux-tape delay sound. Then if you click on the Freeze (F) button you will notice you can loop that to create a strange sort of background texture.