Saint Joe At Akai Stand

JAH wrote:There is no point for Akai to put more development in the MPC 2500/1000 when you have one of the original programmers doing it. Its a symbiotic relationship. There is nothing more here to debate. At some point, its time to move on.

Actually, there is a huge point to them continuing to develop their own shit. Especially when JJOS isn't supported by Akai, and Akai claims JJOS will void your warranty! Not only that, but JJOS ain't free, nor cheap. We shouldn't have to pay for continued software development for our MPC's after we buy the MPC, nor rely on a 3rd party to do it. Plus, I bet if JJOS wasn't in the picture, the stock 1000/2500 OS would still be in the same state it's currently in, just like the 5000 is. Not buying this one!

What DJ Hellfire said.

I have a rack sampler at home with worse specs than on the MPC500, but still it is able to do more stuff than the 500 (will ever), so I'm really annoyed that Andy Mac is saying on that NAMM vid that (not a direct quote) "hardware is so limiting and only now we can do anything".

It's been super clear that Akai OSs (now more than ever when you compare the original 1k/2500 OS to JJOS) are so poor only because either a) they don't care or b) they artificially limit features/don't fix bugs in hopes of users "upgrading" to a high-end model (5k), but by doing so making the company look really bad in the eyes of loyal customers.

At the moment I have 0 confidence in that Akai will deliver what it promises and make its end-users (us the producers) happy.

I'm def getting the REN. Good ish Saint Joe!

i never said the ones with unfinished os were not powerful or great, i have a mpc4k you loon lol

merely stating that akai dont seem to really care about their customers....usually 3rd parties end up making the machines what they are...if the os code is release or swiped

anyone who knows jjos is that its work in progress....with continual new features....yes bugs appear...but he fixes em pretty quickly....a lot quicker that akai....their last two flagships have buggy os....

all this bs on twitter bout akai coming out with os upgrades....

cmon son, get off that fanboy merrygoround

hell, they even sold a mpc1000 with crap pads and had the cheek to charge for a pad upgrade

JAH wrote:

gertie wrote:history of akai mpcs....

akai mpc60 - limited os - expanded by roger linn....
akai mpc3000 - limited os - expanded by vallaxi
akai mpc1k, akai mpc2.5k - limited os - expanded by JJ
akai mpc4000 - unfinised os...still some bugs
akai mpc5000 unfinished os......still some bugs

only the akai 2000 and 2000xl are the ones with stable limited software and no one to expand it hehehe

sorry mpc500 folks

watching joes vid.......look as if they renaisance aint all what it seems...YET....they are at namm and demoing it with a notebook that doesnt even have VSTs installed ....i guess that bit needs to be coded properly first before they try and show it...

The MPCs with the "unfinished" OS are the most powerful MPCs. The MPCs running the JJ OS still have a number of bugs. If you are going to report...at least be objective.

>>the OS is evolving and the feedback from forums members are being listened to

thats my point..they didnt listen to the mpc4000 and mpc5000 users.....a topic on bug lists was provided by users on this forum.....concerning os 1.71 mpc4k and os 2.0 mpc5k and nothing was done

DJ Hellfire wrote:Akai claims JJOS will void your warranty!

Then wait a year...

DJ Hellfire wrote:Not only that, but JJOS ain't free, nor cheap.

Its EXTREMELY cheap for what it is. It basically turns a good box into a great one. IMO there is only one HW sampler/sequencer (ever made...) that can compete, and that's the Octatrack.

DJ Hellfire wrote:We shouldn't have to pay for continued software development for our MPC's after we buy the MPC, nor rely on a 3rd party to do it.

Looked at a different way, we have an incredible opportunity for a talented coder to free himself from the constraints of the corporation and do whatever his imagination (and user feedback) conceives. The only better situation I could conceive is one where they re-hire him and give him full creative freedom on future products. Or one where they had never dicked him in the first place and had given him creative freedom. Or perhaps one where he joins forces with another manufacturer and develops more products with full creative freedom.

The key in all this is the creative freedom. A "stars-aligned-and-the-heavens-parted" set of circumstances led to a genius OS for a great piece of hardware. And we're complaining?

As for the paying part, unless the company has the revenue to support ongoing development, then pay-for-development model is the only one that works. If we paid Akai, it would cost a WHOLE lot more, because they have a corporate infrastructure to support.

Really this is a situation to be thankful for, not to complain about.

DJ Hellfire wrote:Plus, I bet if JJOS wasn't in the picture, the stock 1000/2500 OS would still be in the same state it's currently in,

If JJ was never dicked by Akai, then chances are he would have fixed the bugs that he ended up fixing after he left.

Mr Varsity wrote:

I want that jogwheel for my 2500!

MPC-Tutor wrote:

psr wrote:did I hear him say there wont be an mPC 5000 update. but then again he dont seems to know hardly anything.

That was Andy Mac, he's one of the main product specialists from Akai, he's very knowledgeable - I'm pretty confident he's very much up to speed on all the products there. He does say that there's still more work to be done on both hardware and software.

I thought those two vids from Saint Joe are very insightful. Good stuff.

I agree... and to Andy mac's benefit it is new software and he did reference the product manager who knows the sw in and out.

none the less its shaping up to be a powerhouse.

I am definitely getting the ren just for the MPC3000/60 circuitry plus workflow. Only if it was standalone, it would directly replace my 3000 le.

*Off Topic*
The thing I don't understand about Akai is if they are going to drop support for the older legacy MPC's, then just make the OS codes readily available to the consumers. I'm sure someone can reprogram a similar JJ style OS for the older MPC's.

djerratic wrote:I am definitely getting the ren just for the MPC3000/60 circuitry plus workflow. Only if it was standalone, it would directly replace my 3000 le.

I've been more interested in the Ren upon finding the vintage modes to be circuitry as opposed to DSP. I really gotta see and hear this in person. I'd love to see A/B comparisons set up between the Ren, the 60, and the 3000. I doubt they nailed it exactly. But if they did, I'd be blown away.

JUKE 179r wrote:*Off Topic*
The thing I don't understand about Akai is if they are going to drop support for the older legacy MPC's, then just make the OS codes readily available to the consumers. I'm sure someone can reprogram a similar JJ style OS for the older MPC's.

The only reason I can think of why they don't make their OS open-source is because they don't want to see it being used in other hardware. Whether that's likely to happen or not if it were open is another story. But in reality, Akai can keep it open-source limited to the original hardware only, and they would really have nothing to lose at all. If anything, it creates new features from brilliant programmers. JJ influenced how the 5000 OS was developed, which many of several features were requested by JJ OS users. So open-source would broaden the capabilities for everyone including Akai. Current models like the 500 and 5000 should be fixed completely by Akai and release the code for the 4000, 2000/2000xl, 3000, and 60. If we didn't have JJ, I'd add the 1000 and the 2500 to the list.

mp3 wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:Akai claims JJOS will void your warranty!

Then wait a year...

Why wait a year just to BUY another OS to use my $2700 machine to it's full potential because Akai dropped the ball?

mp3 wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:Not only that, but JJOS ain't free, nor cheap.

Its EXTREMELY cheap for what it is. It basically turns a good box into a great one. IMO there is only one HW sampler/sequencer (ever made...) that can compete, and that's the Octatrack.

My G37 is cheap for what it is. It's a fully loaded sports sedan with Nav, stock 14" mono block caliper big brake kit front and rear, sport suspension, sport heated seats, Bose 3 sub audio, 330 horsepower, and more. To get a comparable ride from BMW, Benz, or Lexus, I'd have to spend another $10K-20k. So yeah, my car is cheap for what you get, but $40,000 is still a lot of money.

mp3 wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:We shouldn't have to pay for continued software development for our MPC's after we buy the MPC, nor rely on a 3rd party to do it.

Looked at a different way, we have an incredible opportunity for a talented coder to free himself from the constraints of the corporation and do whatever his imagination (and user feedback) conceives. The only better situation I could conceive is one where they re-hire him and give him full creative freedom on future products. Or one where they had never dicked him in the first place and had given him creative freedom. Or perhaps one where he joins forces with another manufacturer and develops more products with full creative freedom.

The key in all this is the creative freedom. A "stars-aligned-and-the-heavens-parted" set of circumstances led to a genius OS for a great piece of hardware. And we're complaining?

As for the paying part, unless the company has the revenue to support ongoing development, then pay-for-development model is the only one that works. If we paid Akai, it would cost a WHOLE lot more, because they have a corporate infrastructure to support.

Really this is a situation to be thankful for, not to complain about.

We ALREADY paid for the machine, which should have the software development and maintenance accounted for in it's price. I shouldn't have to go pay someone else to pick up the slack to use my machine to it's full potential when it's hardware architecture clearly supports a better OS.

mp3 wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:Plus, I bet if JJOS wasn't in the picture, the stock 1000/2500 OS would still be in the same state it's currently in,

If JJ was never dicked by Akai, then chances are he would have fixed the bugs that he ended up fixing after he left.

Akai screwing JJ over has nothing to do with me. But I still state that if he hadn't release JJOS, Akai still wouldn't have made any improvements, as shown with the 5K. I don't think they're slacking cuz JJ exists. They are just slacking, or no longer concerned about their hardware customers.

Listen, I'm not in anyway against JJ. I've paid for it for multiple machines, use it and know the benefits of it. I'm saying just because we have the option of JJOS, doesn't mean Akai can just slack the **** off. JJOS should be just that, an OPTION. But that shit is more like a **** requirement to really use the machines.

JAH wrote: The MPC 5000 is a good MPC. It could use an update to fix some minor things. But it is still provides you everything you need in an MPC. It doesn't need a bunch of OS updates adding new features...

For me, if I buy something, I buy it for the features it has, I don't buy it for features it may or may not have in the future. I appreciate that for the manufacturer, it is not a sustainable business model to just keep updating a product for free after that initial purchase. So while I think it's great to discuss 'feature requests', I see that as a bit of fun or just a way to give the developers ideas for future products - I do not expect those features to appear in the product I just purchased.

However, I do expect the existing features to function as advertised. So, if there are bugs, I expect them fixed promptly. I don't want to be looking at the device three years down the line and still wondering if the existing bugs will ever be fixed.

JAH wrote:

gertie wrote:history of akai mpcs....

akai mpc60 - limited os - expanded by roger linn....
akai mpc3000 - limited os - expanded by vallaxi
akai mpc1k, akai mpc2.5k - limited os - expanded by JJ
akai mpc4000 - unfinised os...still some bugs
akai mpc5000 unfinished os......still some bugs

only the akai 2000 and 2000xl are the ones with stable limited software and no one to expand it hehehe

sorry mpc500 folks

watching joes vid.......look as if they renaisance aint all what it seems...YET....they are at namm and demoing it with a notebook that doesnt even have VSTs installed ....i guess that bit needs to be coded properly first before they try and show it...

The MPCs with the "unfinished" OS are the most powerful MPCs. The MPCs running the JJ OS still have a number of bugs. If you are going to report...at least be objective.

The MPC 2500 with JJOS beats a 5k any day

DJ Hellfire wrote:

JAH wrote:There is no point for Akai to put more development in the MPC 2500/1000 when you have one of the original programmers doing it. Its a symbiotic relationship. There is nothing more here to debate. At some point, its time to move on.

Actually, there is a huge point to them continuing to develop their own shit. Especially when JJOS isn't supported by Akai, and Akai claims JJOS will void your warranty! Not only that, but JJOS ain't free, nor cheap. We shouldn't have to pay for continued software development for our MPC's after we buy the MPC, nor rely on a 3rd party to do it. Plus, I bet if JJOS wasn't in the picture, the stock 1000/2500 OS would still be in the same state it's currently in, just like the 5000 is. Not buying this one!

On point. I agree 100%