Andy Mac open to discussions

tapedeck wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:This is usually only possible with a third party app. They have something like this for Maschine, but it's only for Mac. I think it's called Sunflower

"soundflower".

in combination with "sound source" is an excellent setup on mac.

correct soundflower is a 3rd party program independent of maschine or ren too so it can be used with whatever on the mac. i've used it with reason and logic before.

ansiaaa wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:

ansiaaa wrote:since the Ren is its own audio device, will it be able to sample the computer internal audio?

for example, I have a movie running on my PC, and I want to sample a dialogue or anything else, or I'm playing a MP3 and I want to sample it, or a youtube video running in background.

do we just need to set something like "record from: internal" or do we need a separate audio interface and plug it's outs to the ins of the Ren, as if it was any other audio source?

This is usually only possible with a third party app. They have something like this for Maschine, but it's only for Mac. I think it's called Sunflower. Otherwise, you can just run your computer's onboard audio output into Ren's input!

that's not completely correct. with the right audio interface, you can record the computer internal audio.
on Maschine it depends only if u have one of those or not.

most of the audio interfaces coming out lately are able to do it.
that's what I want to know, if the audio interface in the Ren has this ability or not.

Well, it depends on the software that comes with the interface. That interface software will still be considered third party to the DAW software you are using, unless the DAW maker manufactured the interface. With Maschine, there is no way to do it with the software NI included. Therefore, anyway the interface makes it possible will be considered third party, as the interface you use with Maschine itself is third party.

My 003 and Mbox can playback system audio, but Avid doesn't allow the interfaces to internally record that audio into Pro Tools. I don't know if there are other DAW's or apps that allow this, but none of the ones I've used lets you; Reason, Maschine, or Pro Tools.

tapedeck wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:This is usually only possible with a third party app. They have something like this for Maschine, but it's only for Mac. I think it's called Sunflower

"soundflower".

in combination with "sound source" is an excellent setup on mac.

Yeah, that's what I meant! Don't know why I typed that!

Is it like Audio HiJack?

DJ Hellfire wrote:

ansiaaa wrote:that's not completely correct. with the right audio interface, you can record the computer internal audio.
on Maschine it depends only if u have one of those or not.

most of the audio interfaces coming out lately are able to do it.
that's what I want to know, if the audio interface in the Ren has this ability or not.

Well, it depends on the software that comes with the interface. That interface software will still be considered third party to the DAW software you are using, unless the DAW maker manufactured the interface. With Maschine, there is no way to do it with the software NI included. Therefore, anyway the interface makes it possible will be considered third party, as the interface you use with Maschine itself is third party.

that's exactly what I said:
"with the right audio interface, you can record the computer internal audio.
on Maschine it depends only if u have one of those or not."

and I only spoke about Maschine because your brought it up.

I get what you are saying about the DAW's usually not being able to do that, but since the Ren is not ONLY a controller or ONLY a software, but it has got its own audio interface built in, I'd like to know if said built in audio device will have that ability to record internal audio, as many of the modern audio interfaces already do.

xparis001 wrote:1. after discussion with several producers, the function buttons are the ones most used when working. The shift functions are for the ones that are less used. This final list was actually the work of Bruce Forat. The thought is that people bounce into song mode, render as sequences and keep going, so one button access is nice, where if someone's sampling, they usually enter the mode, record a bunch of samples, then leave, so a shift function is ok.

A shift function is definitely not "ok". You, your producer mates and Borat are wrong on this one.

Firstly, most MPCs have a dedicated button to enter the sample screen. It's there for a good reason. If you're skimming through a pile of records and land on a good sample, you cue the record back with one hand and enter sampling mode with the other hand. 2 handed operation. Economy of motion. Simple.

What's immediately obvious from the screenshots is that the shift and sample record button are 5 or 6 inches apart on the Ren! With a 'typical' right-handed beatmaker (85-90% of us) who also have our sampling sources to right of the MPC, this leaves us with an arthritis-inducing double button press with one hand, or we are forced into using 2 hands for one function. Both not good.

At least on the 2KXL there was only an inch between the shift and number 4 button so it was no bother. The newer MPCs operate half way between the two ways of working, because you could hit mode... then a pad. You can still do that with one finger.

I don't buy this idea that people enter sampling mode, "record a bunch of samples, then leave" one bit either.

The beauty of the MPC way of working is the fluidity between different modes... taking a sample, bouncing into Trim, then Program, back to the Main screen, drop a quick sequence, hear it loop while you're needle dropping through a record, back into the Sample screen etc etc.

You are compromising the workflow by relegating it to a secondary function IMO. On a sampler as large as the Ren it's just daft to not have a dedicated sample record button. Not only that, but you have TWO buttons for Song mode!

Let me just state, this is not about the time spent on any one function, it's about cold hard ergonomics and optimum workflow when we are physically taking samples. 2 buttons that are 6 inches apart but need to be pressed together is ludicrous.

xparis001 wrote:2. there will be a master list, but when you load in a vst, that vst is added to a quick list, and added to the project browser on the left. you can drag and drop if from there on any track you want. you can then save that whole project as a file or make it your autoload. so in theory, you could have many different super-sets of plugins, depending on your need.

That sounds pretty good actually. The ability to save those quick lists as presets would be very useful.

For the benefit of those who haven't seen the top panel...

I have to agree with Coz

Even if there will not be a dedicated button for it, atleast move it to a closer location.

Coz wrote:Firstly, most MPCs have a dedicated button to enter the sample screen.

Most MPCs? And I was under the impression that most MPCs (MPC 500, 1000, 2000, 2000XL, 2500, 5000) you have to either press Shift + Button or Shift + Pad to access the sampling mode. The MPC 3000 gives you sampling after two button presses. So that leaves only the MPC 4000 and 60/60II. The MPC 4000 has a dedicated button if memory serves me correct. As I never owned the MPC 60/60II, I am not sure about them.

I wouldn't waste my time debating whether Sampling needs its own button especially since MOST MPCs hasn't had one...and not that it isn't a good idea. But it would be a cool option if Shift + Number buttons were customizable shortcuts to particular menus/modes.

Coz wrote:For the benefit of those who haven't seen the top panel...

Nice pic Coz I'm eyeballing it in every detail. Funny thing though I know I am getting a Ren since I work a lot with maschine, logic mostly and my 4k. As much as you send in these threads recently I think deep down too you will get one eventually.

1) Hey Dan or Andy are you guys going to label the pads 13, 14, 15, and 16 like my 4k like loop, play start, play end, and etc for sample editing?

2) Hmmm why are there two qlink buttons? The Qlink trigger is used for what opposed to qlink under the program button?

Blue Haze wrote:

Coz wrote:For the benefit of those who haven't seen the top panel...

Nice pic Coz I'm eyeballing it in every detail. Funny thing though I know I am getting a Ren since I work a lot with maschine, logic mostly and my 4k. As much as you send in these threads recently I think deep down too you will get one eventually.

That picture is preliminary, the main and shift buttons are going to change places.

main needs to be isolated, and shift definitely needs to be closer.

thanks for your feedback, guys.

instead then the classic "play start", "play end", ... it would be great if we could have this (taken from JJOSXL):



maybe instead of 200ms, make it 1sec?

+ one pad for reverse loop
+ one pad for reverse one-shot

the rest of pads for one-shot, and for looping the highlighted part of the sample.

and...
1 button for zooming in and 1 for zooming out, with the focus on what it's highlighted in that moment (start point or end point)
and...
1 button for maxing out the soundwave form (and 1 for minimizing it as well). This is another feature of JJOSXL that comes in handy to visually enhance the waveform to see its details and place starting and ending points

do you (Dan or Andy) think these features can be added? they are basically only enhancements to the classic MPC workflow, so they wouldn't be alienating for old users, and trust me... once you have tried them on the JJOS, it's hard to go back to the old way!

ansiaaa wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:

ansiaaa wrote:that's not completely correct. with the right audio interface, you can record the computer internal audio.
on Maschine it depends only if u have one of those or not.

most of the audio interfaces coming out lately are able to do it.
that's what I want to know, if the audio interface in the Ren has this ability or not.

Well, it depends on the software that comes with the interface. That interface software will still be considered third party to the DAW software you are using, unless the DAW maker manufactured the interface. With Maschine, there is no way to do it with the software NI included. Therefore, anyway the interface makes it possible will be considered third party, as the interface you use with Maschine itself is third party.

that's exactly what I said:
"with the right audio interface, you can record the computer internal audio.
on Maschine it depends only if u have one of those or not."

and I only spoke about Maschine because your brought it up.

I get what you are saying about the DAW's usually not being able to do that, but since the Ren is not ONLY a controller or ONLY a software, but it has got its own audio interface built in, I'd like to know if said built in audio device will have that ability to record internal audio, as many of the modern audio interfaces already do.

What I'm saying is it has nothing to do with the hardware. It will have to be something Akai writes into their software. If they add it to their software then the hardware won't matter, since the function takes place on a software level. It would be able to do it with or without the hardware! The hardware doesn't actually 'record' any audio. It just passes audio through the external inputs to the software's internal inputs. The interface itself isn't taking system audio and passing it through to the DAW. It has to be some included software or bridge that does it. Most of these interfaces are ASIO driven, so two applications cannot playback audio through them at the same time. Therefore, your interface cannot playback system audio while the DAW is also accessing audio of the interface to record/playback. Maybe coreaudio on mac is different, but this is the case on PC. So what I'm saying is if I'm using Cubase for example, and my interface, which is 3rd party to Cubase, comes with software/bridge that allows me to pass system audio into Cubase, that is a 3rd party solution, unless Cubase is the one that supplies the app/bridge that allows this. What I'm saying about Maschine is that it is automatically 3rd party because any interface you use with Maschine is 3rd party.

DJ Hellfire wrote:What I'm saying is it has nothing to do with the hardware. It will have to be something Akai writes into their software. If they add it to their software then the hardware won't matter, since the function takes place on a software level. It would be able to do it with or without the hardware! The hardware doesn't actually 'record' any audio. It just passes audio through the external inputs to the software's internal inputs. The interface itself isn't taking system audio and passing it through to the DAW. It has to be some included software or bridge that does it. Most of these interfaces are ASIO driven, so two applications cannot playback audio through them at the same time. Therefore, your interface cannot playback system audio the DAW is also accessing record/playback of the interface. Maybe coreaudio on mac is different, but this is the case on PC. So what I'm saying is if I'm using Cubase for example, and my interface, which is 3rd party, comes with software that allows me to pass system audio into Cubase, that is a 3rd party solution, unless Cubase is the one that supplies the app that allows this. What I'm saying about Maschine is that it is automatically 3rd party because any interface you use with Maschine is 3rd party.

I tell you again, I know how that stuff work...
it depends both on the driver of the audio interface AND the actual audio interface itself.

you don't necessarely have to use 3rd party softwares or some kind of options to do it.
as long as the audio interface (hardware + its driver) is design to do it, it will work in your DAW.

for example, my audio device at home is a firewire mixer/soundcard.
I have my pc internal audio set to output 1/2, that routes inside the soundcard and then goes to my monitors.

if I go in Ableton Live, and I want to record the audio from a youtube video, I simply tell Ableton to record from input 1/2, while outputting Ableton Live to, for example, output 7/8.

simple as that.

since the Ren will be something like this: a controller + a DAW + an audio interface with its own driver, I think my question is pretty on spot.

it would be like asking to a sound card manufacturer if their audio interface allows that or not.

but, since it's all integrated, I think the best question to ask is, will the Ren as a whole be able to do it or not.
I could ask them if the integrated audio interface can do it, but that would be pointless since I'm gonna use it only with its own software.

tell me if I need to clarify something, because otherwise I think we could go on like this forever