Reasons why I might pass on the new hardware lineup

It's tough to say when sw devs are not doing their parts or not. I've been in week long sessions studying sw devs and SCRUM. I think it may take a few iterations/versions before all the KaTrillion "wants/user stories/features" are implemented but i think they'll get there. yeah a bit late to the party but I've seen sw devs work and I would rather they build a solid foundation with a solid set of features and then continue to build and add on rather than try to do EPICs and get it all wrong and make it unstable. Even Maschine wast "Mashine the MPC Killer" when it first arrived. I do recall what 1.5 or 1.6 or something?? when they added all those MPC features and recruited all the old MPC users to lure us all in? Nope. it was not the "Maschine" we now know on day one. this is all a process.

GodDevilWhatever wrote:Man I'm going to be honest. I own the Maschine, and have used MPCs. And Maschine's workflow is like 70% there. However, there are a lot of alterations that you would want to do that can't be easily done without a DAW. Then comes the problem of how efficiently a plugin can work inside a DAW. Maschine made this portion complicated once again, and I'd say over half of the people that would like to have the ability, can't do it (being that it's quite tedious and intricate to be able to seperate midi channels and change certain preferences).

That being said, I'll be purchasing the MPC Renaissance just because their original workflow was so intuitive plus I've invested days of my life to that specific workflow. Still they are literally half-stepping back into the game.

Audio production has progressed exponentially in the past half decade and it feels like Akai has not done their research. What they're putting out right now, controllers put out in 2010 can do. And it's a 1200 dollars. It can't be standalone and you can't use VST/Plugins when you use it as a plugin inside a DAW.

Maschine is already ahead in software, as they delt with countless people complaining all day on their forum. And I know Akai is going to go through the same **** (probably much worse) if they don't stop half-stepping and take an alpha stand and have full steps into the integration of software/hardware, because trust me, if Akai doesn't do it, some smart-ass company WILL make a production center that is both software and hardware independent, and customers are only so loyal to a corporation. It's 2012, where the customers are in control. If Akai puts out their 1200 dollar production center and it can't be a production center without an entire computer, people are going to mock the **** **** and Akai will **** fall and **** die.

They need to get their **** straight before actual release. 1200 dollars for a midi controller that's useless without a computer is illogical at this point.

I must disagree on several points.

1. "What they're putting out right now, controllers put out in 2010 can do. "

From MPD32 to Euphonix transport.....from my limited experience no 3rd party controller on the market has 100% control of any software sampler or a DAW. Maschine is the only product on the market that comes close to 100%. Maschine was designed to be a groovebox originally. NI switched gears and morphed it into a workstation. MPC Ren out the gate is a workstation based upon legacy MPCs.

2. "Audio production has progressed exponentially in the past half decade and it feels like Akai has not done their research."

There is a reason why people still use MPCs after 25 years on the market. Akai has done their research and releasing a product based off this research. This includes feature requests taken directly from this forum.

3. "if Akai doesn't do it, some smart-ass company WILL make a production center that is both software and hardware independent, and customers are only so loyal to a corporation. "

I seriously doubt that will ever happen. Most companies have stopped making sampling drum machines a long time ago. Roland was the last company to create products similar to Akai. The MV series is dead now.


4. "If Akai puts out their 1200 dollar production center and it can't be a production center without an entire computer"

Akai is putting out a production center that can't be used without a computer. Only time will tell how well it does. A few rants in this forum will not deter Akai from releasing these new MPCs exactly as advertised.

Another good point.

I'm honestly just stumped on Akai's new product. From a producer that uses both analog and digital, what Akai is doing is basically a step back. I just hope they realize this before the launch or it'll be truly laughed at in the production world.

GodDevilWhatever wrote:I'm honestly just stumped on Akai's new product. From a producer that uses both analog and digital, what Akai is doing is basically a step back. I just hope they realize this before the launch or it'll be truly laughed at in the production world.

The only "step back" I see is that its not a stand alone MPC. This seems like the #1 gripe around here.

Personally, I can see several step forwards. MPC users that purchase the MPC Ren are no longer limited to the hardware specs of legacy MPCs such as limited CPU power and RAM. Then there are effects. Akai has advanced effects capabilities 100x over legacy MPCs. Previously we were limited to a 4 bus effect processor. Now (depending on the power of your computer), you can add 4 insert effects on each pad...and then add 4 insert effects on each track. If you don't like the included Akai effects, you can use 3rd party effects. Add in automation and for the first time ever, you can completely mix onboard an MPC. Slicing Samples? The MPC Ren/Studio out-performs any MPC to date.....all while keeping the same MPC workflow.

I guess so. It's just that every DAW is now capable of what the MPC does and it doesn't bring anything new to the table.

Lampdog wrote:

jpeg wrote:yes updates are nice buy i dont require that shit best to make sure the shit has what u need when u buy, if u have any doubts dont buy on day one then complain let the dust settle, see where shit goes if ur happy shit is moving in the right direction then purchase.

its really that simple.

True words right there. So simple yet so many miss the mark on that.

Pretty much what I had said at the very outset ( well, this and the pricing concern). And Jah went and got all sissy on me

' Akai has no support forum which is critical to users for comparing notes, submitting bugs and helping each other with solutions. In addition, Akai has never been good about developing updates. Each new hardware release becomes the most important and older models are quickly forgotten. This won't work for a complex PC-based environment that is constantly changing '


.... This should form part of anyone's thinking looking to buy a controller. I know that these forums form a solid database for Akai users, but why has the compnay not put together a proper product support forum ? It would help their product and customer relations no end, assuming they actually bother to provide answers to questions put ?

They probably just don't want to deal with it. I mean look what it did to Native Instruments.

GodDevilWhatever wrote:I guess so. It's just that every DAW is now capable of what the MPC does and it doesn't bring anything new to the table.

You are certainly not an avid MPC user.....IMHO.

If every DAW is capable of doing what an MPC does, then why are there so many MPC, MV, and Maschine users out there?

Its really simple....DAWs do not capture the workflow of an MPC. There are no DAW drum pad controllers that once you plug it in, every aspect of the software can be operated from the controller (outside of Maschine). If there were such a product...I would own it.

Now...DAWs can produce the same end results. But for me personally (15 year MPC dude), sitting in front of a DAW trying to make a track from scratch has never been fun. Put an MPC in front of me...that is pure bliss. I have had so many different products in my studio over the years. Any individual that has ever entered my studio when straight towards my MPCs and banging on the pads.

inthemix wrote:' Akai has no support forum which is critical to users for comparing notes, submitting bugs and helping each other with solutions. In addition, Akai has never been good about developing updates. Each new hardware release becomes the most important and older models are quickly forgotten. This won't work for a complex PC-based environment that is constantly changing '


.... This should form part of anyone's thinking looking to buy a controller. I know that these forums form a solid database for Akai users, but why has the compnay not put together a proper product support forum ? It would help their product and customer relations no end, assuming they actually bother to provide answers to questions put ?

You got a excellent point and I agree that akai should have a dedicated forum like NI and Maschine does with company reps stating updates and new releases.

JAH wrote:

GodDevilWhatever wrote:I guess so. It's just that every DAW is now capable of what the MPC does and it doesn't bring anything new to the table.

You are certainly not an avid MPC user.....IMHO.

If every DAW is capable of doing what an MPC does, then why are there so many MPC, MV, and Maschine users out there?

Its really simple....DAWs do not capture the workflow of an MPC. There are no DAW drum pad controllers that once you plug it in, every aspect of the software can be operated from the controller (outside of Maschine). If there were such a product...I would own it.

Now...DAWs can produce the same end results. But for me personally (15 year MPC dude), sitting in front of a DAW trying to make a track from scratch has never been fun. Put an MPC in front of me...that is pure bliss. I have had so many different products in my studio over the years. Any individual that has ever entered my studio when straight towards my MPCs and banging on the pads.

As a logic user I do agree for percussion and sample based production if I had never started with a mpcs I wouldn't know the difference. But that said coming from a mpc the advantages of the mpc workflow at least in sample editing, drum step editing, layering and hands on control is far easier on the mpc.

That said mixing, arranging and layering synths and soft instruments is better on a daw my two cents unless they are samples also.

Blue Haze wrote:
That said mixing, arranging and layering synths and soft instruments is better on a daw my two cents unless they are samples also.

No current or past MPC can compare to the power of a dedicated DAW for mixing, arranging, and layering synths and software instruments.

But...the MPC Ren is essentially the first MPC DAW. When/if Akai decides to add hard disk based audio tracks, the difference narrows. While you may not see anytime soon professionals leaving their favorite DAW (Pro Tools, Nuendo/Cubase, Logic, DP, Sonar, etc) in order to use an MPC DAW. But I believe MPC users will eventually find it not necessary to dump their MPC tracks into a DAW...and use it less and less. This speculation is riding on hopes that they software will be continually developed. And if it is continually developed...does MPC Ren OS2, OS3, etc be paid for updates like all major DAWS? (Maschine not included as we have no idea in OS2 will be free or not..)

Clocks in

Puts on his "hater hat"

Yells, "Guys you can go! I've got the morning shift covered in the endless debate on the Ren. Wait? What? We can all go home? JAH admitted that its not as good because it's not stand alone and that he has decided to only purchase stand alone machines from here on out? Amazing! Guess we can all go home now then. Looks like the war is over"

MeSoHordey wrote: JAH admitted that its not as good because it's not stand alone and that he has decided to only purchase stand alone machines from here on out?

Unlike yourself, I spend 99.9% of my time talking about things I own or intend to buy. Not 99.9% of the time hating on a new product..and hating on those that are excited about said new product.

Is this new direction they way to go for Akai? Hell, yes. I agree 100%. Will I but the MPC Ren II...yup. Will I buy a new highend hardware MPC if Akai releases one in the future? Of course I will.

You can hate now and continue to hate in the future....but it has no impact on what I do with my money. And I suspect that many individuals excited about this new MPC line feel the same way....ya dig.

Please...by all means...continue to b!tch. All press is good press.