Can the MPC Renaissance drag/drop midi/audio inside of a DAW

Audio track editing Ren does not have which the 5k does I believe. Audio track editing is based on region which can be duplicated on the same track and is non destructive. Sample editing isn't the same it is designed for short samples and it destructive. Of course midi regions can be used as mpcs are midi sequencers and have midi tracks.

Still I prefer using a daw for arranging audio, mixing and bouncing now to master as I will have more extensive control for vocals, groups, auxs, and audio tracks. Not even Dan or Andy are going to deny or disapprove the need of a DAW which is why they designed it in it's currrent form.

Most buyers understand that using some type of audio multitracker be it a hardware d2480 or DAW is part of the process the same if you took your unit to a pro studio to track out.


For Bobby that is an interesting update for your motu bpm as logic user Ultrabeat I believe can be mapped to cuz the standalone version can run independent from the daw just I seldom used it.

Blue Haze wrote:Audio track editing Ren does not have which the 5k does I believe. Audio track editing is based on region which can be duplicated on the same track and is non destructive. Sample editing isn't the same it is designed for short samples and it destructive. Of course midi regions can be used as mpcs are midi sequencers and have midi tracks.

Still I prefer using a daw for arranging audio, mixing and bouncing now to master as I will have more extensive control for vocals, groups, auxs, and audio tracks. Not even Dan or Andy are going to deny or disapprove the need of a DAW which is why they designed it in it's currrent form.

Most buyers understand that using some type of audio multitracker be it a hardware d2480 or DAW is part of the process the same if you took your unit to a pro studio to track out.


For Bobby that is an interesting update for your motu bpm as logic user Ultrabeat I believe can be mapped to cuz the standalone version can run independent from the daw just I seldom used it.

We already discussed audio tracks as the MPC Ren doesn't have according to the current specs. If it did, that is another reason to use a DAW less..

Sample Editing on the MPC Ren looks just like any other software editor; its for any size sample. You can undo sample edit processing..the MPC 5000 does this as well. In fact, editing samples could be considered superior on the MPC Ren as you have a dedicated control surface to edit samples with instead of just using a mouse like DAWs. Mixing and bouncing down tracks can easily be handled on the MPC Ren as it can use the highest quality VST effects you can purchase.

Dan and Andy have only shown what it can do standalone. Not much has been dedicated to using it with a DAW. No way am I saying it completely erases the need for a DAW. But what I suggest is that you can complete your musical composition from start to finish within the MPC Ren and not need to use your DAW. If people completed mixes 10+ years ago on the earlier versions of Pro Tools, Cubase, Logic, Digital Performer, etc then they can do the same with the MPC Ren today.

I own the current version of Logic. But with the MPC Ren, I don't see much reason I will need to open it up in Logic. And no argument has been to make claim you must use a DAW to complete your tracks. But I will save this for a future thread when the MPC Ren is released: "Do you need a DAW if you own the MPC Ren/Studiol?"

Though yes you can do a basic mix, bounce and master in the Ren when it released, I will respectfully disagreed on the usage of audio multitrackers verse working with just midi tracks. Have a good one Jah.

Ren is going to be a nice mpc regardless of how people wish to work make music.

Hi Jah,
Not in a true linear fashion such as a DAW has, not even close.On my daw I can view 40 or 50 tracks at a time,not to mention drag n drop everything,real zoom editing multiple midi , or audio tracks on the fly,automation per clip to copy n paste,did I mention key commands, true meters, this is only to name a few.

This isn't worth discussing, a daw is much faster,much more powerful, and doesn't have the limitations that a ren, or maschine has in standalone.I thought you we're well aware of the differences,but maybe your not much of a daw user?

Mixing's done in daws for the most part,or consoles,with some sort of daw connected to it, not an mpc, not to say you can't mix in it, but many of the customers who purchase the ren,will not want to, and will always choose their daw over a standalone option any day. You and others may be the exception though..

So your all set really! You don't have a thing to worry about,because, you know it will work out for your workflow.Me on the other hand, I'm interested in if Akai plans on supporting the feature I asked about.

This is why I think Akai should consider the ren to work well in a daw, I'm not asking much, transport control < thats it..

bobbybland wrote:Hi Jah,
Not in a true linear fashion such as a DAW has, not even close.On my daw I can view 40 or 50 tracks at a time,not to mention drag n drop everything,real zoom editing multiple midi , or audio tracks on the fly,automation per clip to copy n paste,did I mention key commands, true meters, this is only to name a few.

This isn't worth discussing, a daw is much faster,much more powerful, and doesn't have the limitations that a ren, or maschine has in standalone.I thought you we're well aware of the differences,but maybe your not much of a daw user?

Mixing's done in daws for the most part,or consoles,with some sort of daw connected to it, not an mpc, not to say you can't mix in it, but many of the customers who purchase the ren,will not want to, and will always choose their daw over a standalone option any day. You and others may be the exception though..

So your all set really! You don't have a thing to worry about,because, you know it will work out for your workflow.Me on the other hand, I'm interested in if Akai plans on supporting the feature I asked about.

This is why I think Akai should consider the ren to work well in a daw, I'm not asking much, transport control < thats it..

What you are arguing isn't linear vs non linear or Daw vs non daw. Once you sample into an MPC, the audio is converted from analog to digital, which makes it a digital audio workstation, or in short, a DAW. It's a production station that works with digital audio. Additionally, if you adjust your MPC to 104 bars (or that equivalent to a full length song) instead setting it to a 2, 4, or 8 bar loop, then you are now working in a linear fashion. Not being able to see all the tracks at once doesn't mean you aren't working linearly, it's just a limitation of the MPC, mostly due to screen size. Your argument is basically big daw vs little daw; which daw is more powerful.

You do have a point about mixing in a full featured DAW being better. But that was only for 2 main reasons in the past; 1). having an actual mixer with gain meters, 2). access to a limitless amount of plugins. But with products like Maschine, Reason, FL, and Ren, that's all possible within the production suite (although Maschine doesn't have track meters, you can still meter tracks by soloing them and monitoring the main meter). Sure it's nice to have a nice console, but there are millions of people that mix in Daw's with their mouse and don't have a console. So mixing in one of the 4 programs mentioned is really no different than a full featured DAW. The piano roll/midi editors are all laid out the exact same way as a full featured DAW. So moving notes around is just as easy!

The only place a full featured DAW comes into the real advantage is when you want to use effects like tape stops and reversals. For what I have, this is easier when working with actual audio files instead of midi. So for someone that doesn't need to bounce instruments to audio, the production software is pretty much on par with a full DAW. Additionally, a full featured DAW has the advantage for mastering an entire project within a single session or working with vocals. This is obviously needed for the fact that the DAW has the ability to stream large audio files from your hard drive, unlike how a production suite stream's audio from RAM. And obviously, many of the other points you mentioned are very much on point. However, for a person just mixing some beats to post online, shop, or just listen to, mixing in the production realm with the newer technology is highly adequate by todays standards of software.

bobbybland wrote:Hi Jah,
Not in a true linear fashion such as a DAW has, not even close.On my daw I can view 40 or 50 tracks at a time,not to mention drag n drop everything,real zoom editing multiple midi , or audio tracks on the fly,automation per clip to copy n paste,did I mention key commands, true meters, this is only to name a few.

This isn't worth discussing, a daw is much faster,much more powerful, and doesn't have the limitations that a ren, or maschine has in standalone.I thought you we're well aware of the differences,but maybe your not much of a daw user?

Mixing's done in daws for the most part,or consoles,with some sort of daw connected to it, not an mpc, not to say you can't mix in it, but many of the customers who purchase the ren,will not want to, and will always choose their daw over a standalone option any day. You and others may be the exception though..

So your all set really! You don't have a thing to worry about,because, you know it will work out for your workflow.Me on the other hand, I'm interested in if Akai plans on supporting the feature I asked about.

This is why I think Akai should consider the ren to work well in a daw, I'm not asking much, transport control < thats it..

We really can't discuss the Ren's limitations as know one knows the final specs until Akai releases them.

However, the MPC Ren has 128 tracks. I am sure with it having full screen capabilities you can display 40 or 50 tracks at a time, zoom editing, automation, key commands, track meters, etc. Personally, I don't think showing 40 tracks at once is something I will ever need to do...overkill.

And don't be silly...I am fully aware what a DAW has to offer. I never said it will replace a DAW. In fact, I made this clear multiple times. I said with the MPC Ren's capabilities, I will feel less of a need to turn on a DAW. And with all the examples you have given, despite that the MPC Ren will most likely have these features more or less, none of them I find essential to creating a finalized product.

The MPC Ren has two mixers. Both mixers have extensive send/inster effects. What do you think a DAW can do in terms of mixing that can't be accomplished on the MPC Ren? I am not talking about individual preferences to mix in a DAW or not. I am talking specific functions that I simply can't do with an MPC Ren and must use a DAW to accomplish it.

As far as your request...I hope you get it. But can you point to a product that can be used as a VST instrument inside a host...and control the host's transport?

JAH wrote:But can you point to a product that can be used as a VST instrument inside a host...and control the host's transport?

Propellerhead Reason (at least with Pro Tools)!

Exponential growth of technology multiplies, did Akai think we were just stacking rocks up while the Internet boom happened?

DJ Hellfire wrote:

JAH wrote:But can you point to a product that can be used as a VST instrument inside a host...and control the host's transport?

Propellerhead Reason (at least with Pro Tools)!

But Reason isn't a VST instrument. It is a seperate standalone application that links to your DAW via Rewire.

I believe this is completely different than having a Slave (MPC Ren plugin) to open up in a Master (Host Daw)...and then have the Slave operate the transport of the Master. I don't know of any plugins that can accomplish this. This is an issue that NI said that can't do or have a difficulty trying to accomplish.

JAH wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:

JAH wrote:But can you point to a product that can be used as a VST instrument inside a host...and control the host's transport?

Propellerhead Reason (at least with Pro Tools)!

But Reason isn't a VST instrument. It is a seperate standalone application that links to your DAW via Rewire.

I believe this is completely different than having a Slave (MPC Ren plugin) to open up in a Master (Host Daw)...and then have the Slave operate the transport of the Master. I don't know of any plugins that can accomplish this. This is an issue that NI said that can't do or have a difficulty trying to accomplish.

Correct, but Reason can be used as an instrument inside your host (even though it's rewired as a VST/RTAS/AU). But in relation to what Bobby's request is, the Ren is basically the same thing as Reason, and therefore should be easily capable of controlling the DAW transport!

Compatibility people. That's all we're asking for. I know it's not the easiest thing for engineers but I everyone will agree that a good engineered product is going to be a good product.

DJ Hellfire wrote:
Correct, but Reason can be used as an instrument inside your host (even though it's rewired as a VST/RTAS/AU). But in relation to what Bobby's request is, the Ren is basically the same thing as Reason, and therefore should be easily capable of controlling the DAW transport!

Sorry man...I have to side with the engineers programming these products. Reason is not a VST. If it was, it wouldn't need Rewire. No real VST instrument I am aware of can operate the transport of its host. So far, no forum member has identified a VST instrument than can operate a host. NI made it very clear this is something they looked into and simply can't do it or it will take a lot of re-coding to do.

So "easily" shouldn't be a word used unless you are doing the programming.

I don't believe Akai has commented in the forums or in any of the videos...but I am sure they are aware of such feature request. But personally, I don't think the MPC Ren as a new product will function as a VST instrument that can do what no other VST can do. This is just one of my many opinions.....

But I guess we will see.

If we all were just huge passive fanboys of all these companies, we would still be in the stone age of music production. The reason we are where we are today is because we make requests and suggestions. We're the ones buying the damn product, so I don't see why they shouldn't tailor to our needs.

If they want to be stubborn and give the public a big '**** you' towards our inputs, no one is going to buy it. Half of this forum alone feels the MPC Renaissance is a step sideways more than a step forward, and I know the pros over at Gearslutz feel the same if you check out their MPC Renaissance thread.

GodDevilWhatever wrote:If we all were just huge passive fanboys of all these companies, we would still be in the stone age of music production. The reason we are where we are today is because we make requests and suggestions. We're the ones buying the damn product, so I don't see why they shouldn't tailor to our needs.

If they want to be stubborn and give the public a big '**** you' towards our inputs, no one is going to buy it. Half of this forum alone feels the MPC Renaissance is a step sideways more than a step forward, and I know the pros over at Gearslutz feel the same if you check out their MPC Renaissance thread.

I am not sure where this is coming from...this is just a discussion on wants and needs. Akai has indicating numerous times in the past few months that they have been listening to user feedback regarding features. The pad copy function, note repeat implementation, waveform editing on the hardware, pad design, sample chopping improvements...are just a few things I can think of off the top that Dan and Andy have addressed based upon forum feedback.

Now we had been talking about whether its possible for a plugin to control the host. Akai has not given any indication whether its possible or not. NI said probably not. Since there are no products on the market than can currently accomplish this...it would be absurd for anyone to say anything negative about Akai for not adding this function in the new MPCs. Some of the "demands" (versus feature requests) made in these forums are unreasonable.

And I say this to the forum in general....if the MPC Ren/Studio's released feature set doesn't meet your needs....use what you are already using. This will alleviate your heartache.

JAH wrote:Akai has indicating numerous times in the past few months that they have been listening to user feedback regarding features.