Renaissance Vs. Beat Thang

bliprock wrote:

audiounity111 wrote:. They dare call this an MPC with a Fantom... Ha.... whatever.

Made me laugh as i am some one with a MPC and a Fantom XR. I would be very surprised if it was as good as that, and from what you said above as well, it aint even close. Marketing claims like that reek of desperation, or just straight up bum whackery. Not cool man, not cool.
So to me Ren looks the winner between the two, but will stick to a real MPC1000 and a Roland Fantom thanks

Yeah. I have a Motif XS8 and am left just scratching my head how they could have even started to claim a monster keyboard workstation in there. The instrument samples, while some are all right, are mostly heavily over processed and not sampled at enough depth or nuance all across the keys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHEk8mBru1M

this ddue who has used the mpc1k, 2000xl and the 25k and seems to think the beat thang is a better unit then all of them.


some hip-ocracy here slim phatty sounds cheesy as does the mo phatt and does beat thang.

but i aint seen the same level of disresespect directed at those units.

but i agree the look of a unit kinda sets the tone and vibe and the toy vibe of the beat thang will put certain peeps off.

some peeps is saying the new ren is ugly i think it look refined and quite smart i dont have an issue with lights on the pad u lot are making a fuss, sounds like some ego trippin shit going on,.


alot of dudes want music to be a mysterious art they like things that look complex if it look to easy they feel peeps wont resepct what they do or some shit similar .


anyhow

How come that dude didn't make a beat with the Beat Thang? All he did was ramble on about nonsense.

audiounity111 wrote:I wanted to try it because of all the sarcasm and hate poured on it with little tech discussion, like what it can't do which I stated, and what it can like 128 not polyphony.
As a musician that matters to me.
Ultimately it has issues but I only take specs at face value, and that's it.
I'm a grown man whose played in many bands from jazz to hip hop and can give a **** what anyone thinks about looks or vibe about a product, to me it comes down to specs. I'm too old to care if my product choice is hated or not. Any cat with some talent can come up with something good on the Beat Thang, MPC, hell, a casio keyboard and a tape deck. I just wanted to let the cats who think by specs and not public opinion what use this box may or may not have.

The reason there aren't many technical discussions about it is because how the company came off in the beginning. One of the company heads was literally here on this very forum actually arguing back and forth with members about BT, even trash talking MPC's. Sure the members trash talked BT first, but these aren't people trying to get a company off the ground. What respectable company do you know has ever done this? With all the negative shit said about Akai and the new MPC's, you don't see Dan on here engaging in back and forth flame wars with members and potential customers, or over at BT forums shit talking their members. With that alone, marketing and gaudy design aside, why would most people want to invest in a company like that or even try their product? Doesn't provide much confidence in the brightness of their future IMO. Maybe they've turned their public image around, but it's too late, for me!

audiounity111 wrote:Annoyingly, I quickly discovered that you can only quantize a track one way. So annoying and a bit of a deal breaker with 16 tracks... You can't record drums quantized at 16nths, like bass drum and snare, and then go back and overdub non quantized. Everything recorded today, yesterday, and tomorrow on that one track will be tied together to whatever quantize value you choose. So you can't mix rhythms and unquantized overdubs. LAME

Watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oej4GEjJQ4

Tracks one and two (each different bar lengths) are each quantized to 16th notes, then when he gets to track 3, he turns off quantize to do a few fills, so yes, what you want to do can be done.

If you want the humanized feel for each track, just turn quantize off, and listen to the metronome to check your timing like he did in the instructional video.

If you don't take the time to learn the functions, yeah, it will seem limited but when you dig in, you'll discover all the useful functions this box has, that no other box currently has.

It's the same mind-set new MPC users have. They think there are secret techniques to create mind blowing tracks on MPCs when the truth is, the 'gifted' MPC producers simply know everything the machine does. If cats actually got to know their machines before they start complaining about what they can't do, it'd be a different story every time.

As for the effects...what producer (serious about their career) uses stock effects on their finished work?

I said from the beginning, BT is a great sketchpad and has many useful functions to make sample based music. If you're looking for a box that 'does it all', they don't exist.

Fess wrote:the truth is, the 'gifted' MPC producers simply know everything the machine does. If cats actually got to know their machines before they start complaining about what they can't do, it'd be a different story every time.

If you're looking for a box that 'does it all', they don't exist.

truth.com

jpeg wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHEk8mBru1M

this ddue who has used the mpc1k, 2000xl and the 25k and seems to think the beat thang is a better unit then all of them.


some hip-ocracy here slim phatty sounds cheesy as does the mo phatt and does beat thang.

but i aint seen the same level of disresespect directed at those units.

but i agree the look of a unit kinda sets the tone and vibe and the toy vibe of the beat thang will put certain peeps off.

some peeps is saying the new ren is ugly i think it look refined and quite smart i dont have an issue with lights on the pad u lot are making a fuss, sounds like some ego trippin **** going on,.


alot of dudes want music to be a mysterious art they like things that look complex if it look to easy they feel peeps wont resepct what they do or some **** similar .


anyhow

That Beat Thang review was hilarious. Comparing the MPC 3k and 60 to a Black & White TV, and comparing the Beat Thang to a 65 inch flat screen HDTV.

MPCWeapon1 wrote:

jpeg wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHEk8mBru1M

this ddue who has used the mpc1k, 2000xl and the 25k and seems to think the beat thang is a better unit then all of them.


some hip-ocracy here slim phatty sounds cheesy as does the mo phatt and does beat thang.

but i aint seen the same level of disresespect directed at those units.

but i agree the look of a unit kinda sets the tone and vibe and the toy vibe of the beat thang will put certain peeps off.

some peeps is saying the new ren is ugly i think it look refined and quite smart i dont have an issue with lights on the pad u lot are making a fuss, sounds like some ego trippin **** going on,.


alot of dudes want music to be a mysterious art they like things that look complex if it look to easy they feel peeps wont resepct what they do or some **** similar .


anyhow

That Beat Thang review was hilarious. Comparing the MPC 3k and 60 to a Black & White TV, and comparing the Beat Thang to a 65 inch flat screen HDTV.

The only argument the guy really uses that has any validity to it is the portability. But not everyone gives a **** about portability! Comparing the Studio to the 500 instead of to the 1000 or Maschine is just ignorant and his rant loses all credibility!

If he wants to argue portability without a computer, how about the fact that you can take your 1000 (or any MPC) on the road and load the data up to your Ren/Studio when you get back into the studio. Same shit, minus the batteries (except the 500).

DJ Hellfire wrote:

MPCWeapon1 wrote:

jpeg wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHEk8mBru1M

this ddue who has used the mpc1k, 2000xl and the 25k and seems to think the beat thang is a better unit then all of them.


some hip-ocracy here slim phatty sounds cheesy as does the mo phatt and does beat thang.

but i aint seen the same level of disresespect directed at those units.

but i agree the look of a unit kinda sets the tone and vibe and the toy vibe of the beat thang will put certain peeps off.

some peeps is saying the new ren is ugly i think it look refined and quite smart i dont have an issue with lights on the pad u lot are making a fuss, sounds like some ego trippin **** going on,.


alot of dudes want music to be a mysterious art they like things that look complex if it look to easy they feel peeps wont resepct what they do or some **** similar .


anyhow

That Beat Thang review was hilarious. Comparing the MPC 3k and 60 to a Black & White TV, and comparing the Beat Thang to a 65 inch flat screen HDTV.

The only argument the guy really uses that has any validity to it is the portability. But not everyone gives a **** about portability! Comparing the Studio to the 500 instead of to the 1000 or Maschine is just ignorant and his rant loses all credibility!

If he wants to argue portability without a computer, how about the fact that you can take your 1000 (or any MPC) on the road and load the data up to your Ren/Studio when you get back into the studio. Same ****, minus the batteries (except the 500).

Yeah it sounds like a baseless rant. He says he had all the MPCs and sold them all, and is now rocking with the Beat thang. Like the BT is the answer to all of his beat making needs. That is literally an unbelievable statement.

u right this guy aint the most objective but really there is not much u can u can do on an mpc that u cant do on the beat thing as far as chopping samples and making a beat.

the reason the kangz are saying it is an mpc crossed iwth a fantom is cos it has built in waveforms and the pads are layed out asr-x style so u can play instruments direct from the unit.

if u compare the waveform memory in a motif or a fantom to the sample memory in the beat thang the shit is similar.

anyhow check the vid with rocwilder obviously dude is doing marketing for them so a grain of salt required but alotta what dude is saying is valid.

again i would suggest ur ego is stopping u seeing any value in the beat thang cos it does not look complex enuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc_LthA9OGU

Lemme just edge in here again and clear something up...I didn't jump in on this thread to try and prove the BT is better than the Renaissance. Let's be real here; It's way too early to assume anything about the Renaissance, so making a comparison at this point is, well, pointless. I jumped in because I've noticed that for some reason or another it seems like some of you guys despise the BT based on the initial marketing of the box. All I've been doing is pointing out facts and clearing up fallacies with regards to BT's features and functions.
And dlpeace...It seems like he hates the new MPCs but he doesn't know enough about the device(s) to make an informed decision. It's a funny video but I agree on some things he said. For one, hell yeah-that promo beat is crazy wack-we all agree on this. Notice he says he'll probably have 3 Renaissance's in his studio-even though he trashed it, and the Studio! . When the Renaissance gets released will I buy it? Not right away, because I know it will be buggy-like everything when it gets released-including the BT, and right now I have everything that I need. If there comes a time when I see or read about a feature the Renaissance has that greatly improves my workflow, then I might pick one up. In this day and age, does anyone rely on one machine or software app to get the job done?

Fess wrote:Tracks one and two (each different bar lengths) are each quantized to 16th notes, then when he gets to track 3, he turns off quantize to do a few fills, so yes, what you want to do can be done.

Wow so two options - off and on right? sick
jokes aside, I am not whining about gear at all. Just the lies that passes for marketing. Ignore the moral question sure, ok, its about the gear, still not up to claims. Sure it has a sampled wave form, nearly every friggen VA synth and ROMplers do, thats how they work. BUT THIS IS BULL right? I mean is there more than 1024 wave forms? is there a complex multi FX routing system? is there full multisample wave forms with velocity switching layers? does it have the polyphony of 128 voices? No? Then its nothing like a fantom at all. These are expensive work stations, yes dated now I know but still nothing like BT. In fact my Fantom can chop up to as its a sampler as well. No way am i gonna describe it as like a beat kang thang, no way. So claiming to people like me, these lies passed of as marketing then it makes them look really bad. I mean really really, sell ya mum bad. Cos its a total load of bull, and an insult to those that really know. Sell me it by demoing its work flow, sound or selling feature, not hype.

bliprock wrote:

Fess wrote:Tracks one and two (each different bar lengths) are each quantized to 16th notes, then when he gets to track 3, he turns off quantize to do a few fills, so yes, what you want to do can be done.

Wow so two options - off and on right? sick
jokes aside, I am not whining about gear at all. Just the lies that passes for marketing. Ignore the moral question sure, ok, its about the gear, still not up to claims. Sure it has a sampled wave form, nearly every friggen VA synth and ROMplers do, thats how they work. BUT THIS IS BULL right? I mean is there more than 1024 wave forms? is there a complex multi FX routing system? is there full multisample wave forms with velocity switching layers? does it have the polyphony of 128 voices? No? Then its nothing like a fantom at all. These are expensive work stations, yes dated now I know but still nothing like BT. In fact my Fantom can chop up to as its a sampler as well. No way am i gonna describe it as like a beat kang thang, no way. So claiming to people like me, these lies passed of as marketing then it makes them look really bad. I mean really really, sell ya mum bad. Cos its a total load of bull, and an insult to those that really know. Sell me it by demoing its work flow, sound or selling feature, not hype.

.

Christ man, there are about 25 videos demoing it's workflow but you have to actually make an effort to view them first...
You might wanna keep that in mind before you post bullsh*t, cause you clearly don't know fu*k all about the BT. Roland creates a lot of hype around their sh*t just as bad as anyone else. SuperNATURAL ARX technology? What a laugh!

Fess wrote:

audiounity111 wrote:Annoyingly, I quickly discovered that you can only quantize a track one way. So annoying and a bit of a deal breaker with 16 tracks... You can't record drums quantized at 16nths, like bass drum and snare, and then go back and overdub non quantized. Everything recorded today, yesterday, and tomorrow on that one track will be tied together to whatever quantize value you choose. So you can't mix rhythms and unquantized overdubs. LAME

Watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oej4GEjJQ4

Tracks one and two (each different bar lengths) are each quantized to 16th notes, then when he gets to track 3, he turns off quantize to do a few fills, so yes, what you want to do can be done.

If you want the humanized feel for each track, just turn quantize off, and listen to the metronome to check your timing like he did in the instructional video.

If you don't take the time to learn the functions, yeah, it will seem limited but when you dig in, you'll discover all the useful functions this box has, that no other box currently has.

It's the same mind-set new MPC users have. They think there are secret techniques to create mind blowing tracks on MPCs when the truth is, the 'gifted' MPC producers simply know everything the machine does. If cats actually got to know their machines before they start complaining about what they can't do, it'd be a different story every time.

As for the effects...what producer (serious about their career) uses stock effects on their finished work?

I said from the beginning, BT is a great sketchpad and has many useful functions to make sample based music. If you're looking for a box that 'does it all', they don't exist.

Allright, I think I might have not been clear enough all though I do see that I wrote "Everything recorded today, yesterday, and tomorrow on that one track will be tied together to whatever quantize value you choose." But I can see the room for misunderstanding. But see before where I also said that this becomes a deal breaker when you only have 16 tracks. So let me tell you where I am coming from. I don't do simple beats, (sometimes). I know about clicks and have tracked guitar and keys on recordings (or more to the point, have spent months in years past practicing to a metronome for 8 hours a day.) I am not a drummer, Some stuff I can pull off, some I can't, then again I studies jazz for 12 years so I am talking Elvin Jones style drums, I love a lot of cats on their MPC's and beat battles, but let me tell you, some of the rawest live jams, if you wrote it out, there would be some missing beats. That's all right, the energy creativity can make up for it. When I had an MPC, I could qauntize the bass and snare in quarters... layer it up man, say I want sections where there are 64th note triplets, every time division tastefully somehow in the beat (even if in the background,) so you have 4, T4, 8, T8, 16, T16, 32, T32, 64, T64 .. That's 10 tracks used up for one drum! when I could have it as one track on an MPC that let's you layer overdubs quantized to different values. And I'm a gear head so don't lay the 8 banks per track on me because there is no flexible effects routing so if I try to add instruments to each dedicated track which represents a time value, that instrument has to get routed to the same effects the drums are routed to (since I can't use up 10 more tracks just for an instrument at each value.) So any in depth programming will be limited on this box, but it has great polyphony. Now I wouldn't utilize every time value on everything I make, but I like the option, and I have experimented at that complexity before. And quantize is fun, and I like to mix it up with non quantized material. I read EVERY manual back and forth. sucks that the Beat Thang only has videos past a manual that other companies would call a quick start guide, I try every button and know my gear back and forth. I ain't some amateur and came in here trying to be balanced, but yes, many functions on the beat thang are not advanced. I do like the Polyphony though. And I do play some of my beats unquantized, and I play keys and guitar all raw, and then send the **** through my outboard effects processors. I am not looking for an all in one unit. I was looking for the right unit for me and wanted to send some insight which is lacking (was lacking for me when I wanted to find out more about the unit..) So Yes, my original statement stands true, each track is only allowed one quantize value, no mixed values from overdubs on one Track. Now, surprise me with a feature that I don't know about since that is apparently my mentality. So, maybe I didn't communicate clearly enough. But I know what I am talking about.

DJ Hellfire wrote:

audiounity111 wrote:I wanted to try it because of all the sarcasm and hate poured on it with little tech discussion, like what it can't do which I stated, and what it can like 128 not polyphony.
As a musician that matters to me.
Ultimately it has issues but I only take specs at face value, and that's it.
I'm a grown man whose played in many bands from jazz to hip hop and can give a **** what anyone thinks about looks or vibe about a product, to me it comes down to specs. I'm too old to care if my product choice is hated or not. Any cat with some talent can come up with something good on the Beat Thang, MPC, hell, a casio keyboard and a tape deck. I just wanted to let the cats who think by specs and not public opinion what use this box may or may not have.

The reason there aren't many technical discussions about it is because how the company came off in the beginning. One of the company heads was literally here on this very forum actually arguing back and forth with members about BT, even trash talking MPC's. Sure the members trash talked BT first, but these aren't people trying to get a company off the ground. What respectable company do you know has ever done this? With all the negative **** said about Akai and the new MPC's, you don't see Dan on here engaging in back and forth flame wars with members and potential customers, or over at BT forums **** talking their members. With that alone, marketing and gaudy design aside, why would most people want to invest in a company like that or even try their product? Doesn't provide much confidence in the brightness of their future IMO. Maybe they've turned their public image around, but it's too late, for me!

I get that, and could understand someone not wanting to try it on principle. I just wanted to give some thoughts on what I found.