Is the REN doomed to fail in the market?

My two cents is that the sequencer is tight that will be the ace in the hole. The sampler control and sound output with the integration with the software would be
icing on the cake . I use the ap40 along with ableton and it great enhanced my
workflow yet still I prefer the mpc sequencer simplicity over ableton more advanced
sequencer just the fact I can just play the sound instead than concentrate on the
screen.

groovemonger wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:

Interesting you guys mentioned this. I RARELY sampled into my 2500. Most **** was transferred from computer to the MPC via USB or CF. But it went out the 2500 outs. So for me, the Ren will be the same way mostly. I doubt I will be tracking Rens physical outputs much, unless it sounds amazing.

But to respond to Blue Haze, I guess another angle to Ren's "sound" will be sample into it through it's inputs. Who know's if it'll really make much difference though. Maybe the sounds they are giving you with it were already sampled through Ren's inputs?!

Yeah, which kinda goes back to the whole 'the Ren is really expensive' argument -unless it's packing some serious magic somewhere it's seems a tough sell to me. I've alway been skeptical of things like the 12bit/16bit sound of classic MPCs or the swing or the sequencer or whatever else. Logic's bit crusher adds plenty of old-skool crunch to a snare - doesn't have to be an MPC60 unless you're some crazy purist.

I mean, Geist has clearly been thought out with the MPC-type user in mind. Then there's the Maschine for a bit more money. Ren has to outdo those by miles to justify the big price tag. Yes, the brand will help, but they'll get found out if it's not stunning. I'm generally 90%+ happy with Geist as an 'MPC in software' and it was only £69 boxed in a sale (it's £189 download from FX Expansion's website').

I just downloaded the geist demo ironically its got some cool sounds it, but using them with my mouse was terrible to get a groove going

as for the 'ren is really expensive' debate, I think it depends on how you're looking at. If you look at it as the new MPC then it's cheap compared to models of the past which were $2000 $3000+ and even something like the 1000, which is only $300 less new than the "flagship" ren. but then again if you look at it as a midi controller like the mpd's then hell yeah it's expensive.

BassToTheFace wrote:

groovemonger wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:

Interesting you guys mentioned this. I RARELY sampled into my 2500. Most **** was transferred from computer to the MPC via USB or CF. But it went out the 2500 outs. So for me, the Ren will be the same way mostly. I doubt I will be tracking Rens physical outputs much, unless it sounds amazing.

But to respond to Blue Haze, I guess another angle to Ren's "sound" will be sample into it through it's inputs. Who know's if it'll really make much difference though. Maybe the sounds they are giving you with it were already sampled through Ren's inputs?!

Yeah, which kinda goes back to the whole 'the Ren is really expensive' argument -unless it's packing some serious magic somewhere it's seems a tough sell to me. I've alway been skeptical of things like the 12bit/16bit sound of classic MPCs or the swing or the sequencer or whatever else. Logic's bit crusher adds plenty of old-skool crunch to a snare - doesn't have to be an MPC60 unless you're some crazy purist.

I mean, Geist has clearly been thought out with the MPC-type user in mind. Then there's the Maschine for a bit more money. Ren has to outdo those by miles to justify the big price tag. Yes, the brand will help, but they'll get found out if it's not stunning. I'm generally 90%+ happy with Geist as an 'MPC in software' and it was only £69 boxed in a sale (it's £189 download from FX Expansion's website').

I just downloaded the geist demo ironically its got some cool sounds it, but using them with my mouse was terrible to get a groove going

as for the 'ren is really expensive' debate, I think it depends on how you're looking at. If you look at it as the new MPC then it's cheap compared to models of the past which were $2000 $3000+ and even something like the 1000, which is only $300 less new than the "flagship" ren. but then again if you look at it as a midi controller like the mpd's then hell yeah it's expensive.

Oh, I'd definitely recommend using a good controller to get the most out of Geist. At the moment I get by with the pads on my Microkontrol although it's a bit of a PITA as I have to take it in and out of native mode to control Logic and Geist. There's an official mapping/preset for the MPD32, which I'd imagine would kick ass. There's also a good map for the Maschine, go figure...

What a stupid question.
Of course its not doomed to failure. Its a most excellent controller, that is very obvious.
It will be a great success for Akai and thats coming from a non fanboy

only time will tell

the mpc5k didnt do to well....

I think they will smash sales with 'studio' . a few extra q link controls plus the sound card(and 3000 emulation) and midi doesn't wow me. Especially if i can control and navigate the same software with 'studio' The 3000 emulation mite sell to a 3000 head.. I'm assuming your using a 3000 because you only want to work with a 3000 and its sound without a computer... I guess this will appeal to those who only like the sound but want the flexibility and power of the computer . Again a vst effect would emulate it.

And Concerning the midi outs, if your considering this as yr main sequencer, you'd be rocking mostly in the box, so whats the reason for all those midi outs, as you'll be using vsti's... and even if you're planning to use all midi outs for external gear, there's not enough analogue inputs to route back the gear..If each external unit is at least stereo output... So i think the sound card is kinda pointless.. the usb hub feature is dope though... Not sure which thread is was, but someone mentioned that thunderbolt would be a good feature(instead of usb), i reckon it would... Especially if you have a macbook pro with big vsti sample sets on external hard drive, and your saving yr projects to another external hard drive aswell... And then what if your using Ren as a vst slave inside yr daw. How would that usb 2.0 port handle sending midi msgs to the daw while the daw is playing back 60 audio tracks off a usb hard drive that's plugged into a hub?

IF they added to the sound card 8 analogue inputs and 8 outputs plus adat in and out I'd seriously consider buying it.. even if that made the price jump to 2000k.

im convinced the new mpc line will be a huge success u can see the hunger for this product in the amount of interest it has produced when the 5k, 25k or even 1k dropped there was not this level of fanfare and anticipation.

we know from the success of maschine peeps want hardware control with software functions this does that plus goes a step further for those who want to use hardware outs.

i think its a great idea yeas there are those that have audio interfaces but if the 60 and 3k emulations are on point u mofos with be using the outs and when they add sp1200 and s950 emulations u mofos will defo be on it hard.

but peeps love to be skeptical and sometimes its for no good reason.

but whats the big deal about sequencer tightness are u refering to 1/16, 1/32, 1/64 resolution note place when peeps are programming drums for example?

dazastah wrote:1. And Concerning the midi outs, if your considering this as yr main sequencer, you'd be rocking mostly in the box, so whats the reason for all those midi outs, as you'll be using vsti's... and even if you're planning to use all midi outs for external gear, there's not enough analogue inputs to route back the gear..If each external unit is at least stereo output... So i think the sound card is kinda pointless.. the usb hub feature is dope though...

2. Not sure which thread is was, but someone mentioned that thunderbolt would be a good feature(instead of usb), i reckon it would... Especially if you have a macbook pro with big vsti sample sets on external hard drive, and your saving yr projects to another external hard drive aswell... And then what if your using Ren as a vst slave inside yr daw. How would that usb 2.0 port handle sending midi msgs to the daw while the daw is playing back 60 audio tracks off a usb hard drive that's plugged into a hub?

3. IF they added to the sound card 8 analogue inputs and 8 outputs plus adat in and out I'd seriously consider buying it.. even if that made the price jump to 2000k.

1. There are people that have other interfaces with enough inputs to handle their external gear, or they have a mixer that the external gear goes to before entering the interface. Not everyone will be using the Ren as their main interface. Those external pieces will be used with the Ren the same way they are used with your current MPC.

2. The reason Thunderbolt is useless is because your sample library is already on disk. A USB interface has no problem playing back high track counts already on disk since the software is summing it all down to 2 outputs. Hell, with most DAWs, you don't even need an interface to playback sessions. I can playback a HUGE Pro Tools session on my computer through my built-in soundcard via ASIO4ALL. It's RECORDING several channels of high quality audio SIMULTANEOUSLY (like 18 or more channels) that would require thunderbolt, which the MPC Ren will not be doing. Also, although your sound libraries are stored on disk, they are loaded into ram when you are playing them.

3. This would be nice. However, you'd still only have 16 outs. 16 is better than 8, but having 32 ITB is even better IMO. Although, since they are touting this MPC 3000 'sound' that you actually have to track to get, it would have been wise to supply more than 2 outputs.

DJ Hellfire wrote:

dazastah wrote: Although, since they are touting this MPC 3000 'sound' that you actually have to track to get, it would have been wise to supply more than 2 outputs.

Wouldn't the 3000 sound be more important for sampling in, and not tracking out? You have the USB outs going straight to Logic or PT. Not sure how the TRS outs are that important at all for the REN. Resampling can be done internally. The internal audio circuts should maintain the same sound out to the USB as to the TRS. The TRS is only the connector type the same output channel should be used.

This can happen: I can take audio from the REN (or PC) and push it to my Fantom-S sampler. Maybe then they can come in handy.

All that being said, I could be cluless! Fill me in...get me up to speed.

DJ Hellfire wrote:
1. There are people that have other interfaces with enough inputs to handle their external gear, or they have a mixer that the external gear goes to before entering the interface. Not everyone will be using the Ren as their main interface. Those external pieces will be used with the Ren the same way they are used with your current MPC.

Exactly why the 'studio' will be more attractive than the ren..

I think ren will be great. But the studio will def be my purchase..

i guess thunderbolt is useless on ren as current specs.. Unless you store your daw files on external hard drives via hub...(and use ren as vst in daw) Which is what i do as i use a laptop. I just thought of something really outlandish... But imagine sampling like 8channels at once to one pad... and you chop and slice the 8 samples all at once... So instead of stereo samples you have multichannel samples....


as for 3... 16 outs live is pretty useful.. heck 8 outs is great..Especially if your on tour, where a drummer needs a click, and your sound engineer can tune each mix for each venue... (we have a bass player and a drummer where drummer has midi triggers on acoustic kit that triggers sampled drum sounds PHAT!!!) I mix in the box at the studio how ever...but there may be a case when your at a studio and they have a nice analogue desk to track through... MAking beats and using gear is fun... !!! Especially talking about it!!!! YAY!!!

Elohimfetus wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:

dazastah wrote: Although, since they are touting this MPC 3000 'sound' that you actually have to track to get, it would have been wise to supply more than 2 outputs.

Wouldn't the 3000 sound be more important for sampling in, and not tracking out? You have the USB outs going straight to Logic or PT. Not sure how the TRS outs are that important at all for the REN. Resampling can be done internally. The internal audio circuts should maintain the same sound out to the USB as to the TRS. The TRS is only the connector type the same output channel should be used.

This can happen: I can take audio from the REN (or PC) and push it to my Fantom-S sampler. Maybe then they can come in handy.

All that being said, I could be cluless! Fill me in...get me up to speed.

I think it would be important for both. The only thing is a lot of people don't sample in that much anymore. A lot of people transfer samples to the MPC's via USB or CF now. But everyone tracks out, at least up until virtual outs the Ren will offer.

The only time sound will go through USB is when sampling. But remember, sound has to come through the analog inputs first, then to the a-to-d, then to USB. So internal resampling internally isn't going to affect the sound at all since you'll just be going digital to digital. That's why Akai states you have to track the ANALOG outputs to get the sound of the 3000. To get the sound of the 3000 outputs through resampling, you have to resample the Ren's outputs back through it's inputs. But then you have to rechop. Might as well just track the outs directly to your DAW interface. This is why having more analog outs would have been nice.

dazastah wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:
1. There are people that have other interfaces with enough inputs to handle their external gear, or they have a mixer that the external gear goes to before entering the interface. Not everyone will be using the Ren as their main interface. Those external pieces will be used with the Ren the same way they are used with your current MPC.

Exactly why the 'studio' will be more attractive than the ren..

I think ren will be great. But the studio will def be my purchase..

i guess thunderbolt is useless on ren as current specs.. Unless you store your daw files on external hard drives via hub...(and use ren as vst in daw) Which is what i do as i use a laptop. I just thought of something really outlandish... But imagine sampling like 8channels at once to one pad... and you chop and slice the 8 samples all at once... So instead of stereo samples you have multichannel samples....


as for 3... 16 outs live is pretty useful.. heck 8 outs is great..Especially if your on tour, where a drummer needs a click, and your sound engineer can tune each mix for each venue... (we have a bass player and a drummer where drummer has midi triggers on acoustic kit that triggers sampled drum sounds PHAT!!!) I mix in the box at the studio how ever...but there may be a case when your at a studio and they have a nice analogue desk to track through... MAking beats and using gear is fun... !!! Especially talking about it!!!! YAY!!!

Like I mentioned in another thread, the Ren's interface will be useful if you take it to a homies studio and don't want to have to install the Ren software and all your VST's on his rig, or disconnect his interface to plug into your laptop and install drivers for his interface, and possibly the software for whatever DAW he uses if it different than yours. With the Ren's interface, you can just take your Ren and your laptop to his spot, connect Ren's BALANCED TRS outputs to your homies setup and just track out and bang out. If you just have a Studio model, then you have to track to his setup via your laptops headphone output, which would suck!

16 outs live would be useful. But if you have a laptop with you, like most performers have now-a-days, 32 internal outs would be even better!

DJ Hellfire wrote:
Like I mentioned in another thread, the Ren's interface will be useful if you take it to a homies studio and don't want to have to install the Ren software and all your VST's on his rig, or disconnect his interface to plug into your laptop and install drivers for his interface, and possibly the software for whatever DAW he uses if it different than yours. With the Ren's interface, you can just take your Ren and your laptop to his spot, connect Ren's BALANCED TRS outputs to your homies setup and just track out and bang out. If you just have a Studio model, then you have to track to his setup via your laptops headphone output, which would suck!

16 outs live would be useful. But if you have a laptop with you, like most performers have now-a-days, 32 internal outs would be even better!

ASIO makes using the Studio just as easy if not easier.
I would rather install an ASIO driver for my friends interface and just use it when I there then to carry the extra size/weight of the REN and possible use an interface that's not as good as what he has to offer.

ntalec wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:
Like I mentioned in another thread, the Ren's interface will be useful if you take it to a homies studio and don't want to have to install the Ren software and all your VST's on his rig, or disconnect his interface to plug into your laptop and install drivers for his interface, and possibly the software for whatever DAW he uses if it different than yours. With the Ren's interface, you can just take your Ren and your laptop to his spot, connect Ren's BALANCED TRS outputs to your homies setup and just track out and bang out. If you just have a Studio model, then you have to track to his setup via your laptops headphone output, which would suck!

16 outs live would be useful. But if you have a laptop with you, like most performers have now-a-days, 32 internal outs would be even better!

ASIO makes using the Studio just as easy if not easier.
I would rather install an ASIO driver for my friends interface and just use it when I there then to carry the extra size/weight of the REN and possible use an interface that's not as good as what he has to offer.

That's assuming your friend wants you disconnecting his shit and messing with his wires behind his gear. Secondly, a lot of peoples laptops don't even have firewire (even the mini version) if he has a firewire interface. And what about if your friend is using a DSP based PCI DAW interface like Pro Tools HD or some other form of TDM? And carrying an MPC to another studio is not that bad at all. People do it all the time with 4000's and such. If it's something you'd be doing multiple times a week, then it could become a pain. But taking the Ren over to your homie's spot 1 or 2 times won't kill you! And you don't have to worry about silly interface driver incompatibilities! And let's be realistic here, you know the interface on the Ren is going to at least as good as any current MPC sounds. Secondly, with the Ren, you'd still be tracking through his interface. You just be going into it through his analog inputs.

When it comes to what the MPC Ren can and can't do....from my experience (and perhaps..inside scoop ), I would wait until the full specs/manuals are released before I get too bent out of shape (or excited) as the specifications for items still in development/production are subject to change.