How comparable is the latency of ren vs hardware mpc's?

Bug reports & end-user support for Akai's MPC Software 'controllers' including the new MPC Studio 2, the MPC Touch, MPC Renaissance & original MPC Studio and MPC StudioB lack.
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Re: How comparable is the latency of ren vs hardware mpc's?

By JAH Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:46 am
Foot in mouth again...the Ren has a direct monitoring feature...

.......and we where not talking about Pro Tools HD. Select Pro Tools standalone software and try again and I will walk you through this. I am simply talking about latency and MIDI timing issues associated with using software products...nothing more.

There are numerous MIDI keyboard controllers on the market in various price ranges...and numerous VST instruments that are played using these controllers. Your argument basically implies that because of latency and MIDI issues associated with using software and controllers, professionals can't capture their performances appropriately. In other words, you must use standalone hardware like an MPC to get rock solid timing or your performance will suffer. :lol:

This is laughable as most musicians don't use MPCs....and software has been the rave for sequencing for quite sometime.
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Re: How comparable is the latency of ren vs hardware mpc's?

By TheUnfuckwithable Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:36 am
JAH wrote:the Ren has a direct monitoring feature...


that won´t work for sequencing. only for recording. nothing that my audio interface couldn´t do already...

JAH wrote:In other words, you must use standalone hardware like an MPC to get rock solid timing or your performance will suffer.


:nod:
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Re: How comparable is the latency of ren vs hardware mpc's?

By JAH Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:05 am
The Ren's direct monitoring function is for zero latency monitoring of the inputs. This is not a new concept..something that most DAWs and audio interfaces have in one way or the other. You are the one that brought it up like it was something new or amazing. :lol:

Your audio interface? I have no idea what it can do as you never mention it by name for some reason.

The Ren as said before many times, can achieve sub 5 ms of latency. The MIDI timing is superb and has the same 960 ppqn resolution as the MPC 4000. The Ren captures your performance exactly as played. There is no perceived delay when striking a pad and hearing the assigned sample. Note Repeat is flawless from 1/16 to 1/64 triplets.

One nice thing about the Ren (and software in general) is that it is sample accurate. And when you stack/layer sounds on a pad, you don't get the phasing/flamming like you do with some hardware MPCs.
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Re: How comparable is the latency of ren vs hardware mpc's?

By DJ Hellfire Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:39 pm
Man, all this latency talk is bullshit! All I know is when I trigger virtual instruments in Pro Tools or Reason from my MPC, my pad/key response feels the exact same as triggering the MPC's internal samples. And when I use Maschine, the response feels just as tight as my MPC. And it doesn't lag or become less responsive when I add more instruments. That's all I care about. If the Ren does not accomplish this (which I'm sure it will) I will not use it and just return it. Simple as that.
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Re: How comparable is the latency of ren vs hardware mpc's?

By TheUnfuckwithable Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:39 pm
JAH wrote:The Ren's direct monitoring function is for zero latency monitoring of the inputs.


like i said already. but this doen´t help the latency when playing the pads for instance.

JAH wrote:The Ren as said before many times, can achieve sub 5 ms of latency.


only in combination with a powerful computer and proper drivers. but remember: the ren is targeted towards kids and wannabe-producers. and these kids doesn´t always have the newest ans fastest computers.

can you dig it?


JAH wrote:One nice thing about the Ren (and software in general) is that it is sample accurate.


again, if you´d actually make music you would know that this is the reason why so many software only productions lack soul. often they are just lifeless and too "perfect".

hardware gives you a sound and swing you can only dream of.

:smoker:
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Re: How comparable is the latency of ren vs hardware mpc's?

By IMAKEMADBEATS Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:21 pm
DJ Hellfire wrote:Man, all this latency talk is ****! All I know is when I trigger virtual instruments in Pro Tools or Reason from my MPC, my pad/key response feels the exact same as triggering the MPC's internal samples. And when I use Maschine, the response feels just as tight as my MPC. And it doesn't lag or become less responsive when I add more instruments. That's all I care about. If the Ren does not accomplish this (which I'm sure it will) I will not use it and just return it. Simple as that.


:nod:
Hellfire for President.
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Re: How comparable is the latency of ren vs hardware mpc's?

By JAH Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:34 pm
jpeg wrote:i just dont see any latency in the vid so not sure where this whole perception came from

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

The perception came from those looking at anything to criticise the Ren.

Re: How comparable is the latency of ren vs hardware mpc's?

By mcroepster Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:56 pm
**** wrote:
JAH wrote:The Ren as said before many times, can achieve sub 5 ms of latency.


but remember: the ren is targeted towards kids and wannabe-producers. and these kids doesn´t always have the newest ans fastest computers.

can you dig it?




No I can't.
That statement is utter nonsense.!

peace :smoker:
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Re: How comparable is the latency of ren vs hardware mpc's?

By konc3pt Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:43 pm
DJ Hellfire wrote:If the Ren does not accomplish this (which I'm sure it will) I will not use it and just return it. Simple as that.



That is after %15 restocking fee, and if they let you return it since you opened up the software...units bundled with software are handled same way software like pro tools or ableton you cannnot return it, but exchange it if it's defective.

Re: How comparable is the latency of ren vs hardware mpc's?

By Jamon Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:41 pm
Which latency? There's the delay between hitting a pad and hearing it, or inputing an audio signal and it being processed and returned.

What ASIO settings report isn't always the full story.
Try this: http://www.centrance.com/downloads/ltu/

With this Zoom H4n plugged into USB the ASIO control panel set to 144 samples at 48 kHz says 3 ms, but when you actually measure the real time it takes to send a signal out the chain, then back in, it's 31.42 ms.

If Akai said they were aiming for 5 ms, they might've meant the time for pad signal to reach software. That's about what a USB MIDI device would be. If they had an H4n, the time from hitting a pad and hearing a sound might be 20ms (15 ms + 5 ms).

Right away it became apparent that neither musician could play while hearing himself through a 50 ms delay. We lowered the numbers until the point when each musician could comfortably execute their fastest run. Then we raised the delay to find the “sweet spot”. All experiments were conducted multiple times for statistical validity. We concluded that the DJ could reliably notice the delay down to as little as 12ms, and the bass player noticed it all the way down to 9ms.


Even if we assumed the audio latency was lower, say 10 ms each way, you're still talking above 10 when you're actually doing stuff, which is perceptible.

But maybe more important than latency is jitter. If it's stable at 20 ms between hitting pad and hearing sound, you can adjust. But if there's jitter, where one minute it's 20.4, then it's 20.2, 19.8, then you can't learn to adjust and it throws off the feel.

None of this really matters for most people who quantize and play sloppily, because they might be off in their playing by 20 ms anyways, and the software just slaps it back to grid.
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Re: How comparable is the latency of ren vs hardware mpc's?

By JAH Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:26 pm
Jamon wrote:Which latency? There's the delay between hitting a pad and hearing it, or inputing an audio signal and it being processed and returned.

The original topic was about skepticism if the Ren can perform like a hardware MPC regarding striking a pad and hearing the assigned sample.

Using Maschine on a Mac, my sound card reports at 512 Samples....Input 19.2 ms, Processing 11.6 ms, Output 1.9 ms for a total of 32.7 ms. With this setting, using Maschine does't feel any different than using my hardware MPCs. For those thinking I am crazy:

Now I don't know what interface he is using or the specs of his computer. I have a pretty good interface The lowest I can take my audio interface down to is 32 Samples...Input 8.3 ms, Processing .7 ms, Output 1.9 ms for a total of 10.9 ms. And at this setting, I don't notice any significant improvement over 512 Sample setting.


Jamon wrote:None of this really matters for most people who quantize and play sloppily, because they might be off in their playing by 20 ms anyways, and the software just slaps it back to grid.
When I start to increase my buffer settings I can hear and feel changes. But even at 1024 Samples, I can still effectively utilize Maschine to get the drum patterns I desire. And I am no where near David Haynes.

Re: How comparable is the latency of ren vs hardware mpc's?

By bobbybland Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:52 pm
Thanks for the confirmation jah, I just wanted to make sure it felt good. Im using rme interfaces @ 32ms, and the most I ever bump up my mix projects is to about 256ms for mixes. So the ren seems like it will fit nicely in the setup,providing it has certain features upon release.
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Re: How comparable is the latency of ren vs hardware mpc's?

By Lampdog Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:03 pm
**** wrote:but remember: the ren is targeted towards kids and wannabe-producers.

False.

**** wrote:and these kids doesn´t always have the newest ans fastest computers.

True.

**** wrote:again, if you´d actually make music you would know that this is the reason why so many software only productions lack soul. often they are just lifeless and too "perfect".

False.
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