latency!.....is my concern with Renaissance

Bug reports & end-user support for Akai's MPC Software 'controllers' including the new MPC Studio 2, the MPC Touch, MPC Renaissance & original MPC Studio and MPC StudioB lack.
 Topic locked Share on Facebook
User avatar

Re: latency!.....is my concern with Renaissance

By DJ Hellfire Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:50 am
bliprock wrote:sorry Hellfire. you missed my sarcasm. But thanks anyways for giving me the low down. Yeah I like some of what I have seen like waves bundles and UAD as well. very nice. Not much latency with my hardware though so not really swayed to be doing anything ITB. Which is interesting actually now i think about it. I have seperate outs running through fx and compressos, back into mpc, so its same setup as what you are talking about with the Ren in a way, but you would be using the compter to do all the plug in fx and stuff to samlple.
So it seems neat, but yeah im not swayed away from hardware setup. Ren is not for people like me, as its computer based really. But then there are not many people left like me that use only harware, so they will selll lots.



Yeah, I thought it might have been sarcasm, which is why I started off like that! :lol: But I didn't wanna leave you hanging if you were serious! :lol: :lol: :lol:

But, I'm sure most people would love to have some sweet outboard gear. I would. But now everything is going home/project studio, where most don't have the budget for hardware. Plus, I know like in my case, space is limited. So I couldn't fit much hardware if I wanted. I think this is why ITB is so convenient and has taken off the way it has the pass several years! Plus it's great to not have to write settings and shit down. It's like a gift from God to just be able to open a session and all your efx settings and routing is the way you left them! :mrgreen:
User avatar

Re: latency!.....is my concern with Renaissance

By bliprock Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:01 pm
DJ Hellfire wrote:Plus it's great to not have to write settings and **** down. It's like a gift from God to just be able to open a session and all your efx settings and routing is the way you left them! :mrgreen:

True that - though im lucky most stuff takes programm changes so just load project and stuff is set, FX and synths and MPC settings. Just compressors and such left and really after alot of practice you just set it so it sounds good in 3 seconds. But yeah there is always risk you will get a setting and never be able to save it. cept taking a pic.
User avatar

Re: latency!.....is my concern with Renaissance

By mp3 Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:11 pm
In my opinion, the audio latency that most all soundcards can achieve is acceptable. MIDI latency is, for the most part deal-withable also.

MIDI jitter is the real culprit.
User avatar

Re: latency!.....is my concern with Renaissance

By JAH Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:49 pm
mp3 wrote:In my opinion, the audio latency that most all soundcards can achieve is acceptable. MIDI latency is, for the most part deal-withable also.

MIDI jitter is the real culprit.


Because of the hundred pages dedicated to latency, MIDI jitter, Maschine's sequencer issues, etc did some tests last night with Maschine, MPC 2000XL, and Fantom G. I want to find out the sequencing resolution of Maschine.

So knowing that the sequencer resolution of the MPC 2000XL is 96 ppqns (you can count the steps in step edit), I created a sequence with one sound at each step. Then I recorded this sequence (stay with me now) as MIDI into the Fantom G and Maschine.

Results: The Fantom G was able to record all 96 notes. Maschine wasn't able to (quantize turned off). I then played this sequence from the Fantom G and recorded it back into the MPC 2000XL. The XL was able to record all 96 note events.

Turning off Machine's grid and drawing in notes, will only allow you to draw in 32 events per quarter note. As I mentioned above and what you already knew...96 events per quarter note for most MPCs.

Take from it what you will.
User avatar

Re: latency!.....is my concern with Renaissance

By mp3 Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:52 pm
Don't know if you can make any judgements regarding latency/jitter from that test, but if Maschine really has a max resolution of 32nd notes, that's kind of coarse...
User avatar

Re: latency!.....is my concern with Renaissance

By MeSoHordey Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:02 pm
I just think the latency on the Ren is going to be a problem when compared to both industry leading competitors as well as existing stand-alone units.
User avatar

Re: latency!.....is my concern with Renaissance

By mr_debauch Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:03 pm
^ well this is a first.. usually sequencer resolution has been a huge topic that was discussed on new machines (the 5000 for example) .. now that you point that discovery out... I dont think I have heard anyone ask or question the ppqn of the maschine.
User avatar

Re: latency!.....is my concern with Renaissance

By DJ Hellfire Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:23 am
MeSoHordey wrote:I just think the latency on the Ren is going to be a problem when compared to both industry leading competitors as well as existing stand-alone units.



I don't think it will be a problem for most, but I do believe that the USB protocol of the interface will limit how low of a buffer you can set, likely to only 128 minimum, as opposed to a firewire interface which can go to 64 on PC and as low as 32 on Macs (RME may be able to hit 32 on PC as well, not sure). But it may depend on the software and OS. For example, my Mbox micro was only able to go down to 128 on Windows XP. But now on Windows 7 it has a buffer of 64 available. Then on the other hand, my USB interface for my Torq DJ software only goes down to 128. Either way, 128 doesn't bother me. I can scratch and make beats without problem, and vocalists I record never complain about a delay. It's when it's at 256 that I notice the delay.
User avatar

Re: latency!.....is my concern with Renaissance

By Lampdog Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:42 am
DJ Hellfire wrote:as opposed to a firewire interface which can go to 64 on PC and as low as 32 on Macs (RME may be able to hit 32 on PC as well, not sure).


Firewire on PC, RME UFX 48 samples solid with several tracks and multiple plugins on each track with no clipping or spikes, Sony Vegas, Win 7 Ult.
User avatar

Re: latency!.....is my concern with Renaissance

By JAH Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:01 am
DJ Hellfire wrote:
MeSoHordey wrote:I just think the latency on the Ren is going to be a problem when compared to both industry leading competitors as well as existing stand-alone units.



I don't think it will be a problem for most, but I do believe that the USB protocol of the interface will limit how low of a buffer you can set, likely to only 128 minimum, as opposed to a firewire interface which can go to 64 on PC and as low as 32 on Macs (RME may be able to hit 32 on PC as well, not sure). But it may depend on the software and OS. For example, my Mbox micro was only able to go down to 128 on Windows XP. But now on Windows 7 it has a buffer of 64 available. Then on the other hand, my USB interface for my Torq DJ software only goes down to 128. Either way, 128 doesn't bother me. I can scratch and make beats without problem, and vocalists I record never complain about a delay. It's when it's at 256 that I notice the delay.

But have you checked the recent RME and Apogee USB interfaces? They claim that they can achieve latencies as low as firewire. Whether or not the built in interface on the Ren can achieve the same is anyone's guess. But since this is integrated, I see this as a good thing. As it only makes sense to build the Ren with low latency in mind.
User avatar

Re: latency!.....is my concern with Renaissance

By bliprock Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:06 am
mr_debauch wrote:^ well this is a first.. usually sequencer resolution has been a huge topic that was discussed on new machines (the 5000 for example) .. now that you point that discovery out... I dont think I have heard anyone ask or question the ppqn of the maschine.

it will be set by DAW i rekon. Though I think it has nothing to do with the midi over USB. As latency through this bus depends on motherboard hardware implimentation and traffic with other devices. I dont know if midi is translated into different code for USB or it stays midi but that presents jitter as above and could mean timing sync issues with hardware and software as well. I mean PPQ should be not determined by standard midi clock, though I am thinking aloud here. :) And this as the same time as the DAC is working both ways at same time ie sound in sound out.
Lampdog wrote:Firewire on PC, RME UFX 48 samples solid with several tracks and multiple plugins on each track with no clipping or spikes, Sony Vegas, Win 7 Ult.

Win.
I rekon they chose USB2 over firewire or lightpipe or USB3 cos everyone has USB2 and its adequate though IMHO I would be dubious.
 Topic locked
Return to MPC Studio, MPC Touch & MPC Renaissance