midi control over REN software?

important question with either favorable or negative implications.

can incoming MIDI control every function/parameter of the REN software?
ie, can every button on the controller hardware be virtualized with midi?
or have they essentially created the controller as a functional dongle for the REN software?

Nym wrote:important question with either favorable or negative implications.

can incoming MIDI control every function/parameter of the REN software?
ie, can every button on the controller hardware be virtualized with midi?
or have they essentially created the controller as a functional dongle for the REN software?

Nobody knows as of yet. If they lock it to the Akai DAW then it's game over for them. Chances are they haven't done that.

We'll have to wait for more specs. Good question though.

Nym wrote:important question with either favorable or negative implications.

can incoming MIDI control every function/parameter of the REN software?
ie, can every button on the controller hardware be virtualized with midi?
or have they essentially created the controller as a functional dongle for the REN software?

Good question. But even Maschine doesn't support MIDI to control every function/parameter. The same is true for multilple DAWs on the market.

In recent years, I bought several controllers to work with Logic. I tried to create an MPC workflow..specifically sampling and chopping MPC style with no success.

JAH wrote:

Nym wrote:important question with either favorable or negative implications.

can incoming MIDI control every function/parameter of the REN software?
ie, can every button on the controller hardware be virtualized with midi?
or have they essentially created the controller as a functional dongle for the REN software?

Good question. But even Maschine doesn't support MIDI to control every function/parameter. The same is true for multilple DAWs on the market.

In recent years, I bought several controllers to work with Logic. [b] I tried to create an MPC workflow..specifically sampling and chopping MPC style with no success[\b].

I'm assuming you don't have logic 9. Which chops samples lovely.

^ chops differ in the hand of the beholder

Good question. But even Maschine doesn't support MIDI to control every function/parameter. The same is true for multilple DAWs on the market.

off topic, is maschine considered a DAW? likewise with the Ren...DAW? unimportant verbiage really but it's getting slung around a lot lately.

so the question is this - how is the controller communicating with the REN software? MIDI, or something else? also, can the REN software be purchased independently of the controller?

these two interdependent issues would make me respect the work akai has done here:

A - pretty much complete control over the Ren software via AKAI controller. we're talking all instrument functions. i'm fine with loading a VST/learning etc by mouse, but navigation of GRID EDIT, all program editing functions, etc, i'd want to do by controller.

B - complete ability to emulate button presses/triggers on the AKAI controller via MIDI signal. implications being ability to use/build other midi controllers to control the REN software. also the capability of users to build macros and workflow enhancements by feeding the REN chains of commands representing controller button pushes.

regarding the way this has been released, i would also love to hear less from the marketing department and more from some of the people who actually worked on this. i feel that the devs and testers probably have both a better grasp on reality, and B, enough pride in their work to want to discuss it with us.

these marketeers, frankly, are embarrassing themselves with hyperbole and doublemint fresh.

meanwhile thanks JAH

Nym wrote:can incoming MIDI control every function/parameter of the REN software?

my bet is on highly unlikely.
while i commend them for including the multiple midi ins and outs, i have a sneaking suspicion that that is just to add another bullet point in the feature list, and have a one-up on maschine, but midi will be largely unspectacular.
just my guess. i mean, i know of exactly two samplers that do allow midi control of every function and thats JJOS and an akai s20 - there might be more but im saying in my experience it's very rare and not something manufacturers care about.

i see the whole product evolution process in a lot of these 'modern' 'instrument' companies as dumbing things down to attract more customers, not beefing up capability to attract the few power users like yourself.

midi control of every function ... it's very rare and not something manufacturers care about.

you're absolutely right, and it's a woefully underdeveloped use of cheap, existing tech. it puts a LOT of power in the hands of the end user. we are only beginning to see it with JJOS. i can SPEAK COMMANDS to my MPC and have it perform them. "transpose up" i say, and a command is sent to the MPC for it to transpose the notes in the current track +12 semitones.

workflow.

companies...not beefing up capability to attract the few power users

this is disappointing, if true. i myself can only point to exactly 2 entities who do the opposite of this and have seen great success and growth as a result: JJOS and Cockos Reaper.

Nym wrote:

midi control of every function ... it's very rare and not something manufacturers care about.

you're absolutely right, and it's a woefully underdeveloped use of cheap, existing tech. it puts a LOT of power in the hands of the end user. we are only beginning to see it with JJOS. i can SPEAK COMMANDS to my MPC and have it perform them. "transpose up" i say, and a command is sent to the MPC for it to transpose the notes in the current track +12 semitones.

workflow.

companies...not beefing up capability to attract the few power users

this is disappointing, if true. i myself can only point to exactly 2 entities who do the opposite of this and have seen great success and growth as a result: JJOS and Cockos Reaper.

It does suck. The world is becoming more and more fragmented into Boutique developers putting out thousand dollar devices and large companies putting out low-end crap ware. Look at the marketing campaign Akai has for the MPC Ren so far. These guys are trying to attract a totally different market than folks like you Nym.

The problem is with how they internally gauge success. My guess is that the annual revenue from Cockos wouldn't pay the salaries of Akai's marketing guys for a month. So you have guys like Cockos doing it for the love of it (and still probably making pretty good money) and the guys from Akai under pressure to improve revenue by 20M next quarter. Who are they going to sell to? You and I? Or Bobby who wants to be a producer?

companies...not beefing up capability to attract the few power users

Attracting a few is a failed business model for these types of products. But I am always interested in hearing about capabilities "power users" want.

i agree its not a sound business model, im just pointing out the trend.

MeSoHordey wrote:It does suck. The world is becoming more and more fragmented into Boutique developers putting out thousand dollar devices and large companies putting out low-end crap ware

i dont think this is necessarily a bad thing - let the masses have their cheap gadgets and rant about it on the internet - if you have real knowledge and are willing to put down real money you will probably spend more time learning more things about one instrument and also be supporting real people.

tapedeck wrote:i agree its not a sound business model, im just pointing out the trend.

MeSoHordey wrote:It does suck. The world is becoming more and more fragmented into Boutique developers putting out thousand dollar devices and large companies putting out low-end **** ware

i dont think this is necessarily a bad thing - let the masses have their cheap gadgets and rant about it on the internet - if you have real knowledge and are willing to put down real money you will probably spend more time learning more things about one instrument and also be supporting real people.

I hear you. I just don't often have the money to spend on the boutique offerings; like the Tempest for example. Wish companies like Akai, who can take advantage of economies of scale, would put out decent low-cost hardware. I guess a bright spot (and surprise) recently has been Korg. Damn, they are really putting out some fun hardware at decent prices these days.

MeSoHordey wrote:I hear you. I just don't often have the money to spend on the boutique offerings; like the Tempest for example. Wish companies like Akai, who can take advantage of economies of scale, would put out decent low-cost hardware. I guess a bright spot (and surprise) recently has been Korg. Damn, they are really putting out some fun hardware at decent prices these days.

yea i feel you.
i guess its got to be a mind shift from - get dispose get dispose get - to - wait.....get.....devour. the other option is to go used.
i mean, when i got my mpc, that was the most money i ever spent on a piece of gear, and i saved for it, dove into it head first, and quit looking for other stuff after that - trying to make the one good machine i had fill in for the many crap machines i might have come in contact with...adapting my workflow to it, not adapting my setup to my perceived ideals.

and korg is kind of the odd man out with their monotribes etc - but i think these still come across as toys. really, really, really cool toys, but still toys nonetheless.
i mean can you see a radio hit being made on a monotribe anytime soon?

i guess the lesson to learn from that is korg kind of embraces the cheap market, while the other 'big' guys pretend like they are too good for it, but still put out cheap crap at honestly too high a price. its a facade that korg seems to be able to get over with some products.

Nym wrote:^ chops differ in the hand of the beholder

Gotta agree with that. And thats why I'm skeptical of the software at the moment. And skeptical of people who tout other software as being equivalent to the mpc. Ain't nuthin like chopping on an mpc, nor like chopping on jjos.

with that said, I like maschines implementation. yeah, three are some shortcommings and somethings they could have borrowed from jjos, but overally pretty decent.

Thats why im excited for MPC-Ren, hopefully they do it like the mpc but borrowed some things from maschine and poise.

sorry to get off topic.

The one thing that stands out to me for mpc's vs maschine or other similar controller deally's is the midi control. Can't be an mpc without the same level of midi abilities a regular mpc has....thats bare minimum.

Would be dope if akai offered the MPC software seperatelly and we were able to map our existing controllers to it. say I owned an mpd 32 or even a korg, or maschine....they could own shit if they made awesome software with the workflow we are all expecting, but with the option to use other gear.

I am still waiting to have that conversation about power users. But as I wait.....

Yes, chopping is the key to any good sampling workstation. While you can do it in Logic using the mouse or programmable key strokes, it is certainly not like the MPC (regardless of which OS you choose) and its not like the MV-8800/Fantom X/G.

I like JJ's nondestructive chopping although I wouldn't use it all the time. But Roland's manual method of inserting and deleting slice point markers is my favorite (oustide of the Fantom G's limitation of 16 slices):
1. Use the data wheel/cursor to locate positions in the sample
2. Use the cursor keys to zoom in/out of the sample
3. Use the F keys to insert or delete slice points

I would give a testicle for this function in an MPC.

Maschine's chopping, while workable, is disappointing as you can do so much in a dedicate software product. Maschine's manual slicing is a waste. You can add slice points but you can insert them exactly where you want to place them like you can with an MV/Fantom. Maschine has mouse capabilities. Why can't use insert slice markers with a mouse? Its wasted. Maschine's split mode chopping allows you to select in increments of 4, 8, 16, or 32. Really? Why can't you dial in any number from 2 to 32? Why not 64 like an MPC? Yes you can use the ADD slice to split one region into 2 equal regions...but it would be much better to insert slice markers exactly where you want them placed.

JAH wrote:I am still waiting to have that conversation about power users. But as I wait.....

hi, im the topic of this thread ... have we met?