A Professional Question

To those who use their current MPC in regular rotation. What do you see the MPC Ren being able to offer you in your area of production?

Would you say its something that can help you in terms of longevity or something to just add as a extra piece of production equipment, (equipment whoring)?


Thoughts please.

For me, computer integration is the one thing I felt my 2500 lacked and is something I've wanted for years. This is why I chose to experiment with Reason's sequencer and with Maschine. Editing midi with a mouse and tracking to Pro Tools is just so much easier and faster. So for me, the editing midi notes on the fly without having to go into step edit or the sequence edit window is big! And I don't mind using a computer like some people seem to feel is a plague!

While I've made a conscious effort to stay away from computers when making beats (sticking with the mpc 3000) - the vst integration of the ren does interest me...

DJ Hellfire wrote: I don't mind using a computer like some people seem to feel is a plague!

I don't mind using a computer either...hell, I work on one all the time. But that's also the reason I want to have the option of creating music without one... tracking into the 'pooter is a given, but don't make me use it just to create something.

Also, it's nice to take the 1000 on a beach trip and work on things and not have to worry about any other equipment.


As far as the renaissance goes, I'd really have to read more info on it, see videos etc. but that will have to wait until Akai feels the "time is right" to release the spec sheet.

I don't have issues with computer based production but I haven't used it since the SP-606. That was the only time I used a computer for beats because the two worlds was intergrated nicely. But I didn't like turning on my computer so the stand alone part was nice. Not only that I could record any music out there without purchasing because I would sample demos right over the USB that would showcase entire files in audio form. I don't know why it stopped there, Roland was almost there and could've been leading the market today. But I did heard a rumor months ago that Roland was gonna release a hybrid MV that'll be both software based and stand alone. That was a rumor but after seeing the Ren, I believe it could be true.

In one word, convenience. Have one unit doin the job of many. My dj mixer wouldn't be takin up space. The audio interface from what I read has more options than the mbox2 I'm currently usin. Less cables to manage. I'm curious about the vintage modes. I can put my MPD away. I hopefully wont have to worry about the issues that effect older MPCs. I think its safe to assume I'll have more/better storage options. And I use a 2000 mainly so I'm sure there's features it'll have over my current set up thar I haven't read about yet.

It offers a ton of convenience, and a lot more, no doubt about that.

If we state Ren as being an MPC which it is for all intents and purpose it is now by far the most powerful MPC out there. Nothing, not even the 4k or 5k will be able to touch it in terms of power and convenience. But, I suspect the guy limiting himself to an MPC 60, 3000, 4k will be more focussed on the music than the guy with Ren who will get carried away by the wow factor and before he knows it he's staring at the computer screen 24/7 and little music out put. I think a lot of people will think Finally! my music will be much better. That wont happen of course. And lets not forget it is the end result that matters.

But to be specific what I find very interesting is I can load up a 4k session in to Ren. I think that's what all we hardware MPC users should be thinking about rather than its not a real MPC and I'm not going to get one.

In saying that the sound of the 60 or 3k will not be reproduced, That make me sound like a 3k or 60 is BS marketing and anyone buying in to that and sells their 60 or 3k is a fool. It will be closely modelled though.

The MPCs I believe will have no problem with transfer (soundwise) are
All the ones which have been made by Nukai

The 4k (i have one of those) does have a sound but I totally understand why Nukai dont have a 4k button. The 4ks sound is very pristine and almost has no colouration to it. But it still has a sound. It will I believe transfer over to Ren pretty well though.

One other thing

Lots of MPCs are about to be sold.

Lets forward six months in this forum....ZOOOooom



Date: June 1st 2011

DjIsoldmyhardwarempc posts

Hey guys im using Ren and wanted to ask a question as I have this problem yada yada yada

DjIkeptmyhardwareMpc Posts

yeah thats a shame. I write in my hardware MPC so I dont have that issue when writing. Once thats done I then transfer the files to Ren. You dont have the hardware so that's not an option for you.


DjIsoldmyhardwarempc posts

I wish I never sold my hardware MPC.


.................................................................

The lust for hardware mpcs, especially the real Akai ones will grow.

I purchased every flagship MPC since 1997. I upgrade which each model as I like the added feature set. I even bought the MV-8000 and Maschine (twice). So buying the new MPC Ren is a no brainer. (*No suprise but I heard from several sources a new Maschine is in the works. I'll buy that too. So it will enhance my subversion techniques ).

But all jokes aside...what I am excited most is that it lifts the limitations of previous MPCs such as CPU, Ram, hard drive, etc. I previously overcame this by using my MPC to sequence plugins/instruments hosted by Nuendo/Reason. Now I would be able to do this all onboard the new MPC. Another poin is the now the programmers of the MPC have a free reign to add as many features as they see fit without such limitations. For me, its not about being overwhelmed by new features or innovative technology. If you take the feature set of the MPC 1000/2500 (JJ OS), MPC 3000, MPC 4000, MPC 5000, MV-8800, and Maschine, and put it all in the MPC Ren...you would give sample-based producers and performers all the tools they could possibly need. Hmmm...maybe this belongs in the feature request thread.

713_HOU_TX wrote:To those who use their current MPC in regular rotation. What do you see the MPC Ren being able to offer you in your area of production?

Would you say its something that can help you in terms of longevity or something to just add as a extra piece of production equipment, (equipment whoring)?

Thoughts please.

To sum this up....
1. Lifts limitations

2. It will not make you a better artist; just gives you a nicer paint brush and variety of colors

3. Equipment whoring? I have limited space. Something will have to be placed in storage, sold or given away.

labcoats wrote: But, I suspect the guy limiting himself to an MPC 60, 3000, 4k will be more focussed on the music than the guy with Ren who will get carried away by the wow factor....

That is the same thing that is written here everytime a new MPC is released. I don't suspect...but I promise you that when the MPC Ren is released and a few forum members pick it up...they will be reminded everyday that the non-MPC Ren users can do the same or better with their legacy MPCs.

JAH Wrote

That is the same thing that is written here everytime a new MPC is released. I don't suspect...but I promise you that when the MPC Ren is released and a few forum members pick it up...they will be reminded everyday that the non-MPC Ren users can do the same or better with their legacy MPCs.

Indeed I agree and a lot of those I have the real deal statements are rubbish depending on the angle the poster is coming from of course. But there is one area I believe is not up for debate and whether people realise it or not the fact is the benefit of playing a real instrument whether it be a guitar or an MPC is something not easily put in to words but it is for sure inspiring. Forget features. Thats irrelevant when it comes to this.


Allow me to quote this passage from an article written by Innerclock systems. He explains it much better than I can. Granted he's talking about analog synths but the same applies to hardware MPCs because the response time between hitting a pad and hearing the sound is almost instantaneous. Its so fast no one can can feel the minuscule amount of latency between pad strike and sound. Its long, but read it, you will learn something.
, Ive taken the liberty to highlight points in bold.

http://innerclocksystems.com/New%20ICS%20Questions.html

From Inncerclock Systems
I had a friend over the other day – he is a first rate keyboard player – he gigged as a young man using EP-200s and D6 Clavinets. He sold these in the late 80’s like most people and bought midi modules and controllers and later moved into software. I have an old 1976 Roland System 101 analogue keyboard in the studio and he asked if I minded if he had a play. No problem. Four hours later I had to pull the plug so he would go home and let me go to bed. With all his midi gear and softsynths he admitted to feeling mostly uninspired as a player to really play like he used to with same passion as he remembered and yet on this night he could not leave this beat up old monosynth alone.

We discussed the experience at great length the next day and we both concluded that the sole reason behind this renewed enthusiasm and unforced creative expression came from the simple fact that the key-to-note response time is mostly instantaneous in a lot of vintage gear. Arps, Moogs, Rolands, Oberheims – when you press a key the note sounds in microseconds and when your fingers come off the key the note ends just as fast. His natural desire to keep playing had nothing to do with the sounds of the synth or retro nostalgia – he was unaware that he was playing for nearly four hours. This instant keyboard response time is like fingers on guitar strings or hands on a conga skin – feel takes over and expression just happens. He compared the mono-synth response to that of his old D6 Clavinet and anyone who has ever played a real one will know that they almost spit at you when you hit the keys, the response time is that fast. I asked him about Clavinet patches in his midi modules and software emulations. His answer was simple – they sound authentic but the slow response time changes the way you interact with the keys and consequently the expression and feel is much poorer and he finds himself less inspired to actually play.

This is most peoples experience with computer latency and softsynths where response time is never much better than 7ms even on a very good system. I watch people play everyday on these systems and I never see that same level of passion or expression. What I see is playing with no real feel with the knowledge that it will be quantized after the recording anyway. Where is the expression in that? Where is the passion for and connection to an instrument? More disturbing perhaps is that this disappointing experience is broadly accepted as the way things are and should be graciously accepted. And it’s not all about software and computers either. Plenty of modern hardware ‘virtual’ and DSP based instruments suffer from key to note latency also. They sound good but do they begged to be played? Do they keep you awake at night because you can’t leave them alone? The answer is mostly no they do not.


Most/all music taught in schools now is software/controller/PC based. Does this mean we are fostering and indeed encouraging an entire generation that will have no experience of feeling instant key to sound in their playing? What does this mean for feel and expression in playing and composition for the future? If the significance of this experience is lost on those of us that understand how fundamentally different it feels using these vintage instruments with instant response times, what then is the logical conclusion to this trend when all that remains are new generations of electronic musicians who only know software emulations and visit museum displays to look at the heritage behind glass?

Anyone who uses a real MPC and feels the need to explain why they prefer it should plagiarise the above. I think many users just feel cornered in to defending their real MPCs and then it gets a little farcical.

Im probably going to get Ren. But i willl definitely hold on to, and write on the MPC4k. Ren will come in to place when Im almost done and it will be easy peasy to transfer the session from the 4k to Ren. I also look forward to doing it the other way around and transferring a Ren session to the MPC. I will of course test and compare both just to make sure Im not losing any of the karma - Marvellous

Do a quick search on the internet to find that there are diehard MPC users that switch up all the time. 9th Wonder switches up between MPC 2500 and FL Studio. Just Blaze does it with the MPC 4000 and Logic. And then there are those that can make heat without using any hardware. It really doesn't matter what you use.

You don't have to get rid of your hardware MPC and go for Ren. If it is something you want...it will most likely be reasonably priced so anyone can afford it....or use AMS or Sweetwater payment plans to get in into your hands.

But there is no reason why non-adapters should spend all their time away from their MPCs (or whatever they use) and stay in the MPC Ren forum to harrass those that decide to jump onboard. But its expected as this is what happened to both the MPC 2500 and 5000 forums.

What did you think of the innerclock article Jah?

labcoats wrote:What did you think of the innerclock article Jah?

When I first started using MPCs and maybe even in this forum, we had a discussion just like this one. We were talking about latency and the inaccuracies of MIDI...well it was being explained to me. I got it, but really refused to even analyze it too much.

When I am using MPCs, everything is heavly quantized, swing, and shift note modified. I get exactly the feeling I want. I think I will get the same results using this new MPC. And I may probably be able to "feel" that it is different. But once you get intimate with a product and know it in/out and adapt to its tendencies....you should be fine. And this is what every musician that uses software synths adapt too. A lot of piano/keyboard players are using software. I will not dare to say that this is the reason why some people feel today's music is non-expressive or lifeless. Because if you are having issues with expressing yourself using software synths..then jump on a keyboard or mic a piano and record it directly as audio tracks.

You havent understood the article Jah

You talk about Quantising which the article is not about at all. Its mentioned thats all. Your talking about after the fact, once notes are recorded in to your MPC. This is about when you simply strike the pads, the instant playback of the sound after striking the pad, and the interaction between you and the instrument.. Neither is this about any problems I have. I have none. I posted this to perhaps explain why some will always prefer their hardware MPC, even if they dont know why they prefer it.

The piece is written by a very smart man who is trying to put across what we feel when we interact with a real instrument, ones which literally spit back the notes at you. Hes done the analysing , all you needed to do was connect the two dots.
But fair enough, you dont get it and thats fine. Some will though

Ive also said I will probably buy Ren. Im not anti Ren, so please stop answering everything I state on this forum as if I am, and I have some kind of anto Ren agenda which I absolutely dont. Ive said tons of positive stuff about it, stated many facts anout Ren which Ive researched and found my self. Your like a hardcore Ren protectionist man. Relax.

labcoats wrote:Your like a hardcore Ren protectionist man. Relax.

He won't relax his agenda in the slightest... he was exactly the same (if not worse) when the 5k dropped.