Bug reports & end-user support for Akai's MPC Software 'controllers' including the new MPC Studio 2, the MPC Touch, MPC Renaissance & original MPC Studio and MPC StudioB lack.
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By sally Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:39 pm
Lampdog wrote:
sally wrote:does not begin with the letter M,
begins with the letter W.

it´s serious.


Womans Precious Controller :lol:



I'll tell you:
Mr. Lampdog,
you almost guess his name!

half of the letters are correct
the other half are not correct.
there are 24 letters in total, 12 letters are correctly.
it´s serious. :wink:
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By JAH Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:41 pm
What I is see is a company going all out. We have never seen them launch a product this aggressively. The one thing I like is that both the Ren and Studio share the same software. I will mos def pick up both models.

The one thing on my mind is which platform do I choose. PC or Mac. I am heavily leaning towards Mac as I believe out the box its a more stable environment.
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By Retrofreak Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:46 pm
JAH wrote:What I is see is a company going all out. We have never seen them launch a product this aggressively. The one thing I like is that both the Ren and Studio share the same software. I will mos def pick up both models.

The one thing on my mind is which platform do I choose. PC or Mac. I am heavily leaning towards Mac as I believe out the box its a more stable environment.



Mac all the way.
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By mp3 Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:48 pm
Jamon wrote:With the MPC Ren, it's PC software, and MIDI controller, just like before. ... it is a MPD + GUI app,


Well its that, but its not that at the same time. Because the typical controller doesn't obviate the keyboard, mouse, and monitor.

As long as you can operate this the same way you could operate any previous MPC, then to me calling it an MPC is valid. Because that's what MPC means to me. Its the synergy you develop with the interface. Its getting to the point where sequences of button presses and data-wheel twirls cease being left brain functions. Workflow man, workflow.

Jamon wrote:If you started from scratch, and actually tried to build what's best for the craft, you know you wouldn't come up with the MPC as it looks, with its hardware controls of the type they are, with the same function keys and text interface. You'd come up with something revolutionary, that had more efficient workflow.


I get what you're saying, and I certainly support revolutionary, forward thinking products and companies. But evolution is valid too.

Jamon wrote:Then "Akai MPC" lives on, surviving into the software realm, where it's cheaper for Akai to turn a profit.


I wouldn't be so sure about that. Manufacturing hardware and developing software are two different business models. Given that they don't have much institutional experience in this new business model, there is considerable risk that this new business direction could be Akai's undoing if they don't get it right.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, there's definitely a social/fanboi element to the MPC. There are people who get into them because they're 'cool' or 'accepted' or 'iconic'. But that doesn't really matter. To me that's not what a "reputation" is. For years I resisted getting one, because of that fanboi'ism, and because I figured that whatever gear it was that I had at the time could do everything the MPC could do and more, so what was the point.

When I finally took the dive, what I learned was that there is a certain creativity inspired by its interface/workflow that is hard to put into words. And hard to match with other gear.

As long as that lives on, then to me its an MPC.
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By Coz Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:22 pm
mp3 wrote:When I finally took the dive, what I learned was that there is a certain creativity inspired by its interface/workflow that is hard to put into words. And hard to match with other gear.

As long as that lives on, then to me its an MPC.




I think it's the 2 handed workflow and simple but powerful OS that makes the MPC so great to use.
By Jamon Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:38 am
Reputation is based on something real to begin with. That can either be from the instrument, or the player, or a combination of the two.

Like if we pretend record scratching was discovered by a talented artist using an X turntable, because that's just what his father had in the garage. It wasn't a particularly good turntable, and wasn't specifically built for scratching, but it lucked into the situation where that's what this talented artist used. People saw, and were impressed by this amazing new style, and his power got transferred into the symbols associated with him, so the X turntable became an icon for aspiring turntablists. People mimicked him, and many wanted to use the X turntable too, because that's what their idol used, and it's just natural to assume it might be a necessary part of the equation. If you want to be successful too, you don't want to risk it with a Y turntable, because what if you had the talent, but the tool held you back? The X one is proven, so most people prefer to go with that.

I don't know the history of the MPC to know what it is in this case. Was it that much different than anything else out there at the time? Was it clearly superior and a quality product? There was probably some of that. When did it first become popular? Who are the first successful artists to use it? It might've had a lot to do with them too. It might've mostly just been what someone happened to use, because it was what was at the local store, or a price they could afford, or something. Then it lucked into the spotlight riding on the talent and other power of the person using it, which then made it seem like a symbol of that power others wanted to emulate.

Whatever it was, it clearly happened early on, with an early model, because although I see plenty of people using recent versions of the MPC, there doesn't seem to be much aspiration to strive for that great MPC-5000 sound. The new controllers have a prominent switch to emulate classic models, and use elements from the vintage style.

But that doesn't mean there's no value in the MPC method, and it's all empty hype. It's just that, things usually have the most value in the beginning, when it was most relevant to the time and place where it first became associated with power.

Today, turntable X isn't going to have anything valuable about it other than the legacy of how it was used by the first pioneer that led to so many people trying to copy and improve what he found. But things developed beyond that, and turntable Z is far better functionally for what he did at the time with something not great for that purpose.

But the new MPC Renaissance is like trying to issue a turntable Z, that maintains a lot of the turntable X characteristics, so functionally it's up-to-date with how people do things today, but still carries the power associated it from its historical past, when it was used by top people in the competitions.

That doesn't mean it's purely a scam. Maschine for example is like a new turntable built inspired by the past popular turntable X, but in a Z way. It's mostly about function, and has to start near the bottom, and earn a reputation with actual feats. It could luck out, like if a top artist pioneers a new genre with it, then it would become a symbol of power too. That's partly to do with its actual use as a tool, and partly that a talented person happened to use it.

But let's face it, someone like Michael Jordan is not going to lose the game just because he's wearing Converse instead of Nike. Someone with actual skill could play barefoot and still come out on top. But it's just how we work, that if he happens to be wearing shoe X while he's winning, we can't help but assume the shoe has something to do with it.

Likewise, someone talented can use the new MPC controllers and software, even the iPad model, to produce something impressive. But they could probably use Maschine too.

It doesn't mean the MPC reputation is invalid, or that the new models can't be useful tools beyond the fetishism. There's some value in keeping backwards operability, in reusing the same basic design. Some people have been using the MPC for a long time, and have grown to be very accustomed to its ways. There is a legitimate value in giving them a new-tech version, that recycles the interface they're used to.

But it's probably critical that they make it possible to use it absolutely without ever needing to touch a mouse or look at the PC display. They can help introduce PC paradigms to old users who have never explored software before. But maintaining the workflow some are used to means they can't have to suddenly break away from focussing on the MPC to turn on the PC display and reach over to fiddle with a mouse.

So those are probably the main advantages to the Akai MPC controller + software over other alternatives like the Maschine, or MPD-type controller. It's not just the reputation of the name, but the legitimate values in the MPC method that helped build that reputation. That's what a reputation is, a summary judgment based on past success. There's the familiarity of the system, the training from past use, the files saved on past models, and the collective associations of power.

Things like timing and sound are part of that too. Anything can be associated with feelings, even bit depth and compression artifacts. For people who grew up associating positive feelings with music played on vinyl records, the digital recordings today sound harsh and cold. But for people growing up listening to compressed MP3 records on their pocket digital player, they actually prefer the brittle sparkly sound of digital, and even enjoy robotic artifacts. There's even whole sub-genres of music now that highlight the glitchy blocky sounds of digital audio. A lot of what people seem to refer to when they talk about early digital stuff like the MPC sound is a more blocky bitrate, so you hear more crunch.

But you know, turntable scratching isn't that neat anymore, and sampling is no longer a revolution. So there's a big question of how relevant the MPC approach is today. What exactly does it bring to this transition that will keep it relevant to the top idols of tomorrow? It might be able to emulate the past, and bring a lot of that image into the software world for some people, but what next? Who are the artists who made the MPC popular to begin with, and who is keeping it on top?

In their video they have some people, I know nothing about. One I saw is like a guitar soloist shredder, who spazzes out doing fast finger hammering. I could see him with a guitar wah-wah pedal hooked up to the MPC, making those exaggerated facial expressions the guitar guys do. That's kind of neat for a few, but PC audio has laggier timing than real drums or even the MPC 2500 he seems to normally use. So it seems unlikely he would choose to replace a hardware MPC with a software one, simply because he relies on tight timing to do his tricks.

What then reestablishes the MPC reputation in the new software realm? If samplers were new, the MPC would be amazing, because it's not just a sampler, it's a MIDI production studio, combining sampled audio, with MIDI sequencing, using multiple tracks and sequences. But every DAW app today does all that and more. Then there's twists on the paradigm like Ableton Live. What does the MPC software bring other than what MPC already had? Is that enough to make it better than alternatives?

It's kind of like NES. A lot of people grew up with the Nintendo, and it was the winner in the original competitions. Does anyone today even know the TurboGrafx-16 existed? Doesn't seem like it, but everyone knows Mario. Nintendo kept Mario alive, bringing the name into each new step.

Today you can load up a Nintendo emulator, and play Super Mario Bros on your PC. Is that really a superior game? There's some validity to why it was a good game. But a lot of it now is just all the inflated feelings of value around that brand. Making Mario 3D was a big change, but they tried to keep the value going, even though each new Mario game was its own game, and it just having a familiar face and name doesn't necessarily mean it's a better game than something without that familiarity.

For the new MPC software to maintain some of that old reputation, it has to be a somewhat good game, on its own. It should be relevant today, in some way, that makes it actually a top choice. Then whatever bonus you get from nostalgia or idolization is extra. Otherwise without winners using the new MPC software to continue winning, all that's left is the past, which fades out increasingly with each passing moment.

Even worse, with Akai's recent history of failing so hard with MPC firmware, they have to go above and beyond to regain that reputation for software quality. If the MPC software is buggy, or not updated frequently, or poorly designed, and especially if the experience is not seamless, where the workflow is smooth, and you never have to touch a mouse if you choose not to, then it seems like they risk just trashing the old reputation.
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By Danoc Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:22 am
I would like to see the software for I have the MPC2000xl and looking at the small screen I would love to see it now on my 22 inch monitors. I love the squencer GUI and the faders and the set up of the effects and inserts on the software, everything is intuitive and nice and easy to use. if they offer time stretch i hope it's bad ass like Reason! If the software can take 3rd party plugins that'[s even the better!!!

AKAI YOU BETTER DO YOUR THING THIS TIME AROUND, LAST CHANCE!
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By mr_debauch Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:40 am
Jamon wrote:Can MPC reputation transfer into software?[/size]


I think while akai is trying to keep their reputation... they should actually be trying to change it.. Okay, the MPC name is going to have a good rep no matter what happens to the series (we've seen the proof) however... they need to start doing some things right and stop screwing up... essentially, they need to earn back their respect.


Now that they are in an open system working with computers... they are stepping into a domain where the need for support will be greater than it ever has been since the variables will be much greater when it comes to problem solving issues or what have you... is akai known for their support? Lets hope they change that or else it wont end well.

Who knows though, maybe it will work out fine though because the ren seems like a very simple machine.. it's essentially a midi usb pad controller, a midi interface, and a cheap audio interface hard wired to a run of the mill 4 port usb hub combined with an automap style system that is likely to be preset for the hardware's knobs and buttons. At least it looks that way at this point.. so if maybe that bought them some time and budget to get the software written and designed properly. Let's hope akai knows what the stakes are.
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By JAH Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:59 am
mr_debauch wrote: a cheap audio interface hard wired.....


So how did you determine that the audio interface is cheap? You haven't seen it or heard the sound quality. You don't know if its 16 bit or 24 bit.....or 44.1 khz to 192 khz. You don't know how good the drivers are.
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By mp3 Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:22 am
Reputation is based on perception. In some cases the perception is closer to truth than fiction, in some cases it isn't. With respect to the MPC, its reputation is evidenced in all the great music it has spawned.

Jamon wrote:I don't know the history of the MPC to know what it is in this case.


I won't get too far into the history lesson, but upon its release in 87, the only real competition for the MPC60 was the SP12 and SP1200. EMU basically never developed the SP concept any further, and they discontinued it in 1990.

For a period of time (~85 to ~97), the MPC and SP were the only games in town, and the MPC was the clearcut leader. It wasn't that a famous hip hop artist used the MPC. It was that most of them did. If you're not familiar with the history of the MPC, then I'd hazard a guess that you're not familiar with the history of hip hop either. but the best music of the entire genre was produced during that era.

Jamon wrote:I see plenty of people using recent versions of the MPC, there doesn't seem to be much aspiration to strive for that great MPC-5000 sound.


Well yeah but nobody's chasing that Fantom X sound either. That comes with the territory.

Jamon wrote:It's just that, things usually have the most value in the beginning, when it was most relevant to the time and place where it first became associated with power.


I see what you're getting at. And that's part of it. But the popularity of Maschine, for example, is testament to the fact that the MPC got some things very right from day one. And thus that there are some things that the MPC still has very right, even though, technically speaking, its a dinosaur. In fact, the sheer number of MPC-alikes (the grooveboxes, the drum sampler plugins, etc.) is testament to that same fact. You don't fix what's not broken.

There are so many products based on the MPC concept (or some derivative of it) that at some point you have to acknowledge that imitation is the best form of flattery... Its influence is all over the music tech industry.

Jamon wrote:What then reestablishes the MPC reputation in the new software realm?


I answered that in my last reply.

Jamon wrote:What does the MPC software bring other than what MPC already had?


That alone is plenty.

Jamon wrote:Is that enough to make it better than alternatives?


That's subjective.

Jamon wrote:For the new MPC software to maintain some of that old reputation, it has to be a somewhat good game, on its own. It should be relevant today, in some way, that makes it actually a top choice.


How much MPC-alike software exists right now? You can't really question its relevancy.

Jamon wrote:without winners using the new MPC software to continue winning, all that's left is the past, which fades out increasingly with each passing moment.


Not to point out the obvious, but you're posting on a website dedicated to a 35 year old line of drum machines. Many of which are still in use after 35 years. Don't see MPCs fading to irrelevancy any time soon. Especially with this new line. If Akai gets it right, that is.

But even if they don't get it right, people aren't going to fall out of love with the MPCs they already own. People aren't gonna stop trading them on ebay. Software developers aren't going to stop cloning them. Hardware manufacturers aren't going to stop lifting ideas from them. I'm sure it'll all fade at some point, but I'm not sure you understand just how much of an impact the MPC has had on the last 35 years of music, up to this very day, not to mention the the music tech industry.

its iconic status is well deserved, and far from the fluke that you seem to think it is.
Last edited by mp3 on Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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By mr_debauch Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:24 am
JAH wrote:
mr_debauch wrote: a cheap audio interface hard wired.....


So how did you determine that the audio interface is cheap? You haven't seen it or heard the sound quality. You don't know if its 16 bit or 24 bit.....or 44.1 khz to 192 khz. You don't know how good the drivers are.


what does that have to do with price? which is what I was talking about... if they put an apogee in there we know it would be at least 500 dollars more... and would be advertised.
By evil A Sulli Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:11 am
dcook79 wrote:
evil A Sulli wrote:To me it looks like Akai wants its undisputed crown back for good. The slim is going to be a hot ticket especially if they get the software to load other files.The slim is a poor man dream come true to get to use the mpc's feel.



load other files types....like....? daw project files...? rex...? just curious what you mean/looking for?


Any and everything possible. Take the VS 1680 for instance, did you know you can load those files in reaper? Akai just needs to leave a door open in its software and a good programmer will expand the software well beyond its normal capabilities.
By Jamon Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:22 am
To me "MPC" is mostly dry, and uninfluenced by emotion, because I didn't know it existed until recently. I was more familiar with the software scene. Not that long ago if you asked me how to make hip hop beats, the first thing to come to mind would be "Fruity Loops".

When I first saw someone using an MPC in a video, they were just playing a simple melody with a few pads. I thought it looked really ugly, like a cash register from the '80s. It was big and boxy with beige plastic like an old PC.

But when PC music software finally exploded and dominated the market, with endless options of audio interfaces, MIDI controllers, VSTis, the hardware seemed less expensive. Instead of everything being in the thousands, there was neat stuff for hundreds.

I got sick of the PC way of making music, and wanted to try something else, so began researching and buying standalone hardware. There are some sequencers for thousands of dollars in keyboard workstations, but the closest thing I could find that seemed to work similar to PC software that was cheap was the MPC 500, which I bought.

But it sucked. There was a saving bug, and crashes, so I couldn't even get anything done, and the pads were unresponsive so I'd have to pound on the pads. I tried reporting bugs to Akai, and they said they'd work on it at first, but then they stopped replying to my emails and didn't update the firmware.

Lots of time passed where I didn't even use it, and I'd revisit it now and then, doing things like taking the rubber pads off to make it easier to trigger the sensors, and creating AkaiOS.com to try to get them to do something about the broken firmware. But nothing really made it work good enough.

So I bought a MPC 2500, and got JJ OS, and I've read things here and posted, and that's basically all the influence I have about the MPC. Mostly it's negative. I couldn't tell you a famous artist who used the MPC for some classic music, and I don't even think it's that great. There's a million things I hate about it, and I don't even use mine yet, but it's the most promising ticket out of PC software I've found thus far.

For me then, it's easy to see when people are influenced by something else besides the machine itself. Like to me, I was interested in the Beat Thang when it first appeared. The reaction from most others was primarily about image, like, "lol our MPC club is way more pro and awesomer than yours. you're the burger kangz and your machine is a joke because it has blue lights and it thinks it can make beats when everyone knows the only legitimate way to make hip hop is with an MPC". To me the machine had a lot of promise, and all I care about is replacing the PC with something that is efficient and easy to use.

I think the vintage mode slider button on the new models looks insane. Why take up so much space with something like that in the hardware? If you must, why not have it as an option within the software, so if you want to change modes, you go into a menu somewhere and select it. Why would you want that as a hardware control? How often are you really going to do that? I'd far rather have something useful like using that to switch between time signatures, or something real. Emulation modes of vintage machines? What?

Since a lot of that kind of stuff fails to matter to me, it mostly comes down to function, workflow, and style. But none of that has been displayed yet, so I have no real sense of what the new MPC stuff is yet. I didn't like the style, prefer black, and it looked like cheap plastic.

To me the main interest of the MPC was that it didn't need a PC. If they design the user experience right, it might not be so bad, and I could see people not caring so much if you could ignore the PC sometimes and let it disappear so it'd feel like a standalone MPC. But there's no indication yet how it works, and the details are what count.

But it seems like for most people, requiring a PC is not a dealbreaker. It seems like, to most people it's about the MPC workflow, which comes out of the types of hardware controls it has, combined with the way the OS works.

I wonder how many of those people have actually used software though. If you don't mind the GUI windows and mouse, then there has been a lot of powerful software out there for a long time. When I first got the MPC, being limited to 128 MB of sampling memory was a shock, because in the PC world you can use however much RAM you want, and stream directly from disk, so there's basically no limit.

But it's not just the hardware, there's so many possibilities, so many ways to mix and match virtual effects and instruments, with impossibly complex tools for automation and even programming of audio modifiers. You're not limited with what you get, you can buy whatever hardware modules you want, to combine them into a custom setup of your choosing. It's nowhere near comparable.

But if what you focus on is something like sampling a record, chopping, and sequencing pad hits, mixing in some bass, then you don't care about all the possibilities, since you just want to do this one specific thing.

In that case, all Akai really needs to do is focus down hard on the bare essentials and get it perfect, so the new MPC does that one thing, and does it as efficiently as possible, while utilizing the power of the PC for things like disk streaming and unlimited RAM.

If they do that, then it seems like the old school use of the MPC will transfer over. But. If that's what you want to do with it, then do you really need gigs of RAM and unlimited virtual effects and instruments? It could be nice, but, it also might be unnecessary.

Getting that classic hip hop sound is more about the samples you choose, and how you arrange them. Having more options for sound effects will only make it sound less like that.

If that's primarily what the MPC is about, which it seems since their advertisements seem aimed at hip hop makers, then maybe it would've been better to just fix the firmware and make a solid simple machine that does one thing and does it well.

6 gigs of samples does not sound appealing, because it's probably overwhelming, and sucks the creativity out of you. People probably would've been happier with something like subscriptions for frequent firmware upgrades, even for older models, where their feedback is listened to. Then they could make it integrate better with software, like adding a function to automatically export .wavs for each track over USB so you can simply drag them into multitrack software.