Akai is really LISTENING!!

In the end, I believe the rencen will be a classic...
But I seriously doubt that it'll come out the gate that way.
Nothing ever does, whether it be hardware or software. Roland, Yamaha, Korg,/Sonar, Protools, cubase...... None of them are rock solid out of the gate, so I hope that everybody keep that in mind when the rencen is released!

Pilotwings wrote:Rather than start a new thread, I have one question regarding the new MPC RENAISSANCE.

Would it have been better to put USB 3.0 or Thunderbolt as the computer interface on the Renaissance instead of USB 2.0? Basically "future proofing" the new flagship.

That would be a waste. The Renaissance will not be multi-tracking several channels of high quality audio like a traditional high end DAW interface. It's basically only needed to trigger midi/audio already in the computer and to track a maximum of 2 channels at a time. Thunderbolt would be a senseless and expensive addition to the unit for what it's purpose is!

DJ Hellfire wrote:That would be a waste. The Renaissance will not be multi-tracking several channels of high quality audio like a traditional high end DAW interface. It's basically only needed to trigger midi/audio already in the computer and to track a maximum of 2 channels at a time. Thunderbolt would be a senseless and expensive addition to the unit for what it's purpose is!

thanks for the reply.

what about using vst's through the Renaissance software? those would be mixed and come out of the stereo outputs with no addition latency?

Pilotwings wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:That would be a waste. The Renaissance will not be multi-tracking several channels of high quality audio like a traditional high end DAW interface. It's basically only needed to trigger midi/audio already in the computer and to track a maximum of 2 channels at a time. Thunderbolt would be a senseless and expensive addition to the unit for what it's purpose is!

thanks for the reply.

what about using vst's through the Renaissance software? those would be mixed and come out of the stereo outputs with no addition latency?

correct. with minimal latency. theres no such thing as "no latency" in computers, or in hardware, for that matter. even hardware synths and mpcs have latency. the goal is to get it consistent and less than 5ms.

some plugins introduce latency by design, such as look ahead limiters. those we can't help as thats how they work.

This is my two cents...
To my Background: I own/owned MPC 2000XL/500/1000/2500/MPC 60
and also S950/S1000/s5000.

To me actually some Things would be really very very important:

1. Support Of Loading JJ OS Programms on the Ren

This is why:
If you are seriously working on the MPC 1000/2500 it is a must to have jj installed. There are essential feature in it.
Akai didnt manage to release a nice OS so now they could make up for that by supporting JJ OS Programs. JJ would for sure sent you some detail about his Program format, if you ask him nicely.

2. Release the Source Codes of the MPC 500 Firmware or give some specs bout it!!!

If you @akai have not enough resources to develop - we, the customers have.
I hate the ignorancy that this baby would probably never get develloped any further. And with that in mind i would not buy a ren, no matter what features it has.
Then i would rather go for an OP-1 (wich i already own) or an Roland MV-8800 or some other nice gear.

Juppdich wrote:JJ would for sure sent you some detail about his Program format, if you ask him nicely.

i hope not!

need to support jjos1 programs atleast.. or im not **** with the ren!

I contacted JJ already...but not really sure if he understood what I was asking. So I was about to have my wife contact him and actually get him on the phone. But I received a lot of negative feedback from forum members that use the JJ OS so I stopped wasting my energy since I don't own the MPC 2500/1000. We have several forum members here who beta test the JJ OS and have a great rapport with him. They should be the ones that champion this cause.

Personally, I would just be happy if some of my favorite JJ OS features found its way to the MPC Ren with or without JJ OS program format support:
1. Nondestructive Chopping
2. Real-time pitch-shift incoming audio
3. Customize numeric keys
4. Non-overlap mode for keygroup programming
5. Sample playhead marker
6. Copy sequence region using the data wheel
7. RAM based audio tracks
8. Chords

xparis001 wrote:
The arpeggiator is a funny thing. its a great thing to have on hardware, but for the software, i'm not sure how we'd engage it, as it's usually reserved for midi tracks, but then i could see someone wanting it on vsts too.

as to audio tracks, this will come in an update, but not version 1.0. Direct recording to ram will be available, however. disk streaming will come later.

PLEASE consider including an arpeggiator! Or better yet, a "midi phrase" samplng function. Here's what I mean- so just as you can sample and chop up audio and assign chunks of audio to a pad... if you allowed for a way to sample midi parts (either played on a mpk, recorded in from a daw midi track, or drawn in on a piano roll) you could then grab a chunk of those midi notes and assign it to a pad. THEN, you could have some pads triggering drum samples for example, and some pads spitting out midi phrase loops triggering vsts. This would allow the user to flip vst insruments in a way similar to flipping chopped samples... with the added advantage of real time midi transpose (via mpc studio knobs) real time swing adjustment to lock the midi phrases into the project groove, etc... This would be an amazing way to flip vst intruments, or even external hardware midi instrumnts!

@xparis001

there should be a way to change the volume of the sound u are prewieving, to make it blend better when ur playing a seqvence.

xparis001 wrote:

Pilotwings wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:That would be a waste. The Renaissance will not be multi-tracking several channels of high quality audio like a traditional high end DAW interface. It's basically only needed to trigger midi/audio already in the computer and to track a maximum of 2 channels at a time. Thunderbolt would be a senseless and expensive addition to the unit for what it's purpose is!

thanks for the reply.

what about using vst's through the Renaissance software? those would be mixed and come out of the stereo outputs with no addition latency?

correct. with minimal latency. theres no such thing as "no latency" in computers, or in hardware, for that matter. even hardware synths and mpcs have latency. the goal is to get it consistent and less than 5ms.

some plugins introduce latency by design, such as look ahead limiters. those we can't help as thats how they work.

Well, I dont think triggering an internal MPC3k or 4k which triggers in less time than 4 samples could be called latency. 5ms is, and imo is noticeable. I guarantee its going to be an issue with players who have an intuitive and immediate style of playing. The types who really feel the groove as they strike the pads. Its all very well triggering downtempo hip hop loops which isnt noticeable, but when your doing 16th hats @125bpm and playing those hats with intentional velocities to create a groove I think 5ms is easily noticeable. Thats my opinion based on years of using Daws with less than 5ms of overall latency.

Of course this is no fault of akai and theres nothing can be done about it. And for the record Im probably going to get the Ren. But as my writing style has always been write and mix as I go along, latency has always been an issue for me. Its gotten much better thoigh as a lot of plugins induce zero latency but it does mean when I write I can never use multiband comps, as well as some EQa and other comps which happen to be my favourite ones...typical huh..

I think you should put a warning on the box - AVOID ABLETON LIVE. That software is the worst for latency. Even just creating groups in that software with no added plugins for some reason adds lag to the system. It doesnt read on the preferences that the dealy has gone up, I just feel it. Also when you put ableton on record stand by mode it comes out of delay compensation mode which upsets the whole vibe of the track. Its truly awful when adding some plugins. So, imagine all those noobs who use Live and the complaints and blame their going to lay at Akais door... Get a disclaimer in there heheh

The 4 samples latency is incorrect. For one, it does not account for DA latency of the converters. 4 samples latency for a DA converter is unheard of so it would at least be about 1 ms.

The reason that 5 ms latency would be noticeable is due to the fact that most audio interfaces will pad the figures with double buffers so the settings in the control panel are lying. Anything less than 4-5 ms round trip will be unnoticeable if it is the real figure. I personally do notice anything higher than that though.

That being said, most USB soundcards do pad the figures so don't be surprised if Akai does as well. Not to mention that just because a card can set a low latency does not mean it will preform well at that latency even if you have a fast optimized rig. Luckily, there is now a benchmark to measure these things.

Keep in mind that you will be able to use your own soundcard still like an RME and get the best low latency performance. Just think it is a shame they don't make a version with no soundcard for less. (not the studio)

labcoats still talking about latency and product he doesn't plan to buy. Priceless...

JAH wrote:labcoats still talking about latency and product he doesn't plan to buy. Priceless...

he said he planned on buying it in that post... why dont you read it without getting offended.

Luigi wrote:@xparis001

there should be a way to change the volume of the sound u are prewieving, to make it blend better when ur playing a seqvence.

Agreed. Maschine has a couple different ways of doing this. Really useful!