Is the REN doomed to fail in the market?

Is the REN doomed to fail in the market?

Here are the issues.

1. Akai hasn't got the software track record of the major plugin producers and has taken some flack for the quality of its software in the past. Will people 'risk' Akai software with not much of a track record behind it? Will it be buggy? How will updates work? What if in a few years Akai pull the plug? Your MPC 2000xl still works, discontinued or not. Unsupported software soon stops working as you upgrade your computer.

2. Too little too late. Some big name producers have happily ditched hardware MPCs for NI Maschines, others have found what works for them with other plugins like FXexpanion Geist and other control surfaces or just made do with the inbuilt tools on their DAW. Can Akai really make the Ren a 'must have' for people that don't just buy gear for the hell of it?

3. It's just kind of expensive. Yes, it's a fully featured control surface with an audio interface thrown in. VHS vs. Betamax. Cheaper, however nasty, wins (unless you're post-2000 Apple). Maschines and MPDs are pretty cheap used - there's always one to snap up on eBay.

groovemonger wrote:Is the REN doomed to fail in the market?

Yes, I think, sorry.

Thanks for your atention.

This thread won't last long.

groovemonger wrote:Akai hasn't got the software track record of the major plugin producers and has taken some flack for the quality of its software in the past.

True.

groovemonger wrote:Will people 'risk' Akai software with not much of a track record behind it?

Some people will dive straight in and take the risk, others will sit back and see how things develop. I will personally sit back and see what the true picture is once people like Sound On Sound get hold of it for review.

groovemonger wrote:Will it be buggy?

Quite possibly.

groovemonger wrote:How will updates work?

The frequency of updates is the most important thing. The update(s) will presumably be downloadable like other software.

groovemonger wrote:What if in a few years Akai pull the plug?

You will end up with an expensive paperweight. The Ren, Studio or Fly won't be around in 10 years... probably not even in 5.

Bottom line...don't sell your hardware MPC!

moyphee wrote:This thread won't last long.

Why?

I wonder though, cause I think akai's software track record is something we know about, but a lot of outsiders (not people like us in these forums etc.. IE: regular people) they dont know the situation with akai.

I have a friend who produces casually but buys a good amount of software related gear and the other day he was asking me if I heard anything about the new beat thang that just dropped.. I told him what I know and think about that company and right there and then he decided maybe he would stay away from that product. People like him wouldn't know what we know about akai etc... the 5000 fiasco, the jjos situation, and what ever else.

So, I have a feeling akai might do okay for selling to the general public regardless of the above mentioned concerns.

groovemonger wrote:Is the REN doomed to fail in the market?

Here are the issues.

1. Akai hasn't got the software track record of the major plugin producers and has taken some flack for the quality of its software in the past. Will people 'risk' Akai software with not much of a track record behind it? Will it be buggy? How will updates work? What if in a few years Akai pull the plug? Your MPC 2000xl still works, discontinued or not. Unsupported software soon stops working as you upgrade your computer.

2. Too little too late. Some big name producers have happily ditched hardware MPCs for NI Maschines, others have found what works for them with other plugins like FXexpanion Geist and other control surfaces or just made do with the inbuilt tools on their DAW. Can Akai really make the Ren a 'must have' for people that don't just buy gear for the hell of it?

3. It's just kind of expensive. Yes, it's a fully featured control surface with an audio interface thrown in. VHS vs. Betamax. Cheaper, however nasty, wins (unless you're post-2000 Apple). Maschines and MPDs are pretty cheap used - there's always one to snap up on eBay.

These are all great and valid points. The reason I think Akai does have a chance is because like Maschine, and unlike most other production platforms, Akai has a fully integrated hardware controller. That alone is worth a lot of points. All they really have to do it nail the software! And being that they have some software experience through the App Store apps and that they just bought out a software company, I think they are at least headed in the right direction. There really is no other competition out there right now for Maschine as far as 100% dedicated hardware goes, at least not in the form of a true drum machine!

DJ Hellfire wrote:

groovemonger wrote:Akai has a fully integrated hardware controller.

Integrated on what?

sally wrote:

moyphee wrote:This thread won't last long.

Why?

It usually doesn't take long before legit criticism and logical thinking is met with fanboy enthusiasm. At that anything short of praise is construed as hating. The thread will then end as an "Akai is listening and loves us" vs. "Numark is playing us boned us" exchange.

moyphee wrote:\
It usually doesn't take long before legit criticism and logical thinking is met with fanboy enthusiasm. At that anything short of praise is construed as hating.

that is almost a summary of the entire ren section.

moyphee wrote:

sally wrote:

moyphee wrote:This thread won't last long.

Why?

It usually doesn't take long before legit criticism and logical thinking is met with fanboy enthusiasm. At that anything short of praise is construed as hating. The thread will then end as an "Akai is listening and loves us" vs. "Numark is playing us boned us" exchange.

Ok, You right here.
Excuse me, please.

Thanks You.

sally wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:

groovemonger wrote:Akai has a fully integrated hardware controller.

Integrated on what?

Their software!

DJ Hellfire wrote:

groovemonger wrote:Is the REN doomed to fail in the market?

Here are the issues.

1. Akai hasn't got the software track record of the major plugin producers and has taken some flack for the quality of its software in the past. Will people 'risk' Akai software with not much of a track record behind it? Will it be buggy? How will updates work? What if in a few years Akai pull the plug? Your MPC 2000xl still works, discontinued or not. Unsupported software soon stops working as you upgrade your computer.

2. Too little too late. Some big name producers have happily ditched hardware MPCs for NI Maschines, others have found what works for them with other plugins like FXexpanion Geist and other control surfaces or just made do with the inbuilt tools on their DAW. Can Akai really make the Ren a 'must have' for people that don't just buy gear for the hell of it?

3. It's just kind of expensive. Yes, it's a fully featured control surface with an audio interface thrown in. VHS vs. Betamax. Cheaper, however nasty, wins (unless you're post-2000 Apple). Maschines and MPDs are pretty cheap used - there's always one to snap up on eBay.

These are all great and valid points. The reason I think Akai does have a chance is because like Maschine, and unlike most other production platforms, Akai has a fully integrated hardware controller. That alone is worth a lot of points. All they really have to do it nail the software! And being that they have some software experience through the App Store apps and that they just bought out a software company, I think they are at least headed in the right direction. There really is no other competition out there right now for Maschine as far as 100% dedicated hardware goes, at least not in the form of a true drum machine!

AHEM...
I wanna put in my 2 cents and ask: why do you guys think that AKAI has been spending the last 5 years making controllers for ABLETON, the IPAD, the IPHONE?
Its because they wanted to get some guys together that work with Ableton and Apple to get their software up to speed. In fact, if you look at it closely, it looks suspiciously like ABLETON LIVEs session view. I doubt that AKAI/Alesis/NuMark will pull the plug on something so freakn profitable as selling and designing software, especially since the MPC 5000 is more than likely the last hardware sampler theyll ever produce...
2: For the life of me, I cant seem to get attached to software...I like pads to slap, and knobs to twerk...I have seen producers that use MASCHINE on youtube, as well as units in the pawnshop with bad usb ports. And dont you dare try to take it apart and replace it, it voids the warranty...
3: Who in their right mind would buy a used controller that has been beat to hell and back? A controller that has no audio inputs? The MPC studio costs exactly the same as the MASCHINE, and has a much deeper knowledge base, hence why we are all here on this forum BTW, Betamax had better quality picture...

I can't claim to have used the Maschine for more than a fairly short play around but wasn't taken with it particularly as it just seemed kinda 'too much' for what I want. I find that a lot with NI stuff - the presentation is a bit too much 'everything and the kitchen sink', a bit hollywood.

Since, sadly, getting rid of the 2000XL a few years back my method of doing 'MPC' style stuff has been FXexpansion Guru, which in the last couple of weeks I have upgraded to Geist. That's well thought out software, right there - no glitz, no glamour, just everything an MPC user might want, logically laid out. Interestingly, there's a lot of people using Geist with Maschine, which shows how good the software is and how the NI software doesn't win everyone over. I use it with a Microkontrol but have heard that with FXexpansion's MPD32 preset it really allows for a lot of 'mouse free' fun.

What I'm saying is the options for an MPC-like experience in software are already pretty good. Geist was £69 in a sale recently. An MPD32 might be £100 used. £169 and you've got an insane beat-making set-up that would, in most regards, kick the highest-end MPC's ass. So £800 for the Ren... It has to be AMAZING.

What i loved about the 2000xl was that I could use it away from all my other music gear - bunch of cool samples, pile of records and CDs, and make the basis of a track. I used it to run backing tracks for a live band - sat next to the keyboard player - rock solid, didn't have the 'naffness' of a laptop on stage. That, for me, was/is the magic of the MPC - a groove-box you could cuddle up with and make music fast. Swing, the sequencer, the 16bit sound, etc. I've always been skeptical of. The audience wouldn't notice any of that over anything else you might have used.

Perhaps Akai should have put at least the guts of an MPC500 in the Ren for stand alone use then wowed us with the software magic on top. That would have been a unique proposition. Software is the future, like it or not, but can be Akai leaders here any time soon?

groovemonger wrote:I can't claim to have used the Maschine for more than a fairly short play around but wasn't taken with it particularly as it just seemed kinda 'too much' for what I want. I find that a lot with NI stuff - the presentation is a bit too much 'everything and the kitchen sink', a bit hollywood.

Since, sadly, getting rid of the 2000XL a few years back my method of doing 'MPC' style stuff has been FXexpansion Guru, which in the last couple of weeks I have upgraded to Geist. That's well thought out software, right there - no glitz, no glamour, just everything an MPC user might want, logically laid out. Interestingly, there's a lot of people using Geist with Maschine, which shows how good the software is and how the NI software doesn't win everyone over. I use it with a Microkontrol but have heard that with FXexpansion's MPD32 preset it really allows for a lot of 'mouse free' fun.

What I'm saying is the options for an MPC-like experience in software are already pretty good. Geist was £69 in a sale recently. An MPD32 might be £100 used. £169 and you've got an insane beat-making set-up that would, in most regards, kick the highest-end MPC's ass. So £800 for the Ren... It has to be AMAZING.

What i loved about the 2000xl was that I could use it away from all my other music gear - bunch of cool samples, pile of records and CDs, and make the basis of a track. I used it to run backing tracks for a live band - sat next to the keyboard player - rock solid, didn't have the 'naffness' of a laptop on stage. That, for me, was/is the magic of the MPC - a groove-box you could cuddle up with and make music fast. Swing, the sequencer, the 16bit sound, etc. I've always been skeptical of. The audience wouldn't notice any of that over anything else you might have used.

Perhaps Akai should have put at least the guts of an MPC500 in the Ren for stand alone use then wowed us with the software magic on top. That would have been a unique proposition. Software is the future, like it or not, but can be Akai leaders here any time soon?

Hmmm! Everything you say you like about the XL is exactly what you can do with the Maschine. Just because it can do a lot of shit doesn't mean you have to use all the shit. It's really just a simple as an XL, if you want it to be. I honestly barely use Kontakt and all the extras it came with. But I do use the VST's a lot. Other than VST's I use Maschine the same exact way I use my XL and 2500. The thing you have to do is sit down and realize that some things about it are gonna be different than what you have been used to the last several years. And yeah, your workflow will not be fast right away, just the same as when you first got your MPC. But if you stick with it and learn it, you will appreciate it, even if you still prefer the MPC workflow. It takes years to really get fluent on a piece of gear. Just seems people expect to just jump on some shit and expect to be able to fly right through it right away, and when they can't, they just chalk it up to being because it's software. I have a feeling that most people who couldn't get into Maschine are probably gonna fell the same about Ren!

As far as can Akai become the leaders? I don't know. There is a LOT of great software out there. It will likely take years before they get up there with the rest. Luckily they at least have the Akai and MPC brands to give them somewhat of an edge!