Bug reports & end-user support for Akai's MPC Software 'controllers' including the new MPC Studio 2, the MPC Touch, MPC Renaissance & original MPC Studio and MPC StudioB lack.
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By JAH Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:57 am
IF the Ren provides the MONO channels we are discussing and the DAW of your choice can't see the MONO channels....I can't see how its the Ren's fault.

Pro Tools can see the Ren's MONO channels. When the Ren is used as a plugin, it can send MIDI to other tracks within Pro Tools. The other DAWs that some forum members are using don't have both of these capabilities. Based upion this, I would switch DAWs if these functions were important to me.

No one is arguing whether 16 virtual outs is enough or not enough. But clearly you can export up to 128 tracks plus 8 submixes to import into your DAW.
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By JAH Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:34 am
Upon closer look, the MPC Ren plugins are different. The RTAS version DOES have 16 mono or 8 stereo outputs as shown in this video:



However, the AU MPC Ren plugin for Logic only has 8 stereo pairs as far as I can tell. But I am no where near an experienced Logic user.

I haven't tested the VST version yet.
By bobbybland Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:14 pm
Right so this video proves PT RTAS which wasn't supported in the REN before Vst was supported, has the ability for 16 mono output channels vs Vst which only supports 8 stereo output channels. This just proves they are aware it was needed, and haven't released it for VST spec yet.. Great looks like I'll have to fire up pro tools just to set up my template. :roll:

As far as 128tracks, thats a different point, as well as 8 different submixes, thats still relying on 8 stereo, NOT 16 mono for the Vst spec. Which is why I started the thread, if I was content with Pro Tools ,I wouldn't have bothered.

The fact is Pro Tools is years behind the latest technology,clearly,it's not even 64bit yet, but funny it's still being pimped as the industry's software choice. I've never been fond of the industry.

EITHER WAY AKAI, FIX THIS LACK OF SUPPORT ASAP! We need 16 mono channel support for VSTs without the need for a workaround. Thanks
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By DJ Hellfire Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:46 pm
JAH wrote:IF the Ren provides the MONO channels we are discussing and the DAW of your choice can't see the MONO channels....I can't see how its the Ren's fault.

Pro Tools can see the Ren's MONO channels. When the Ren is used as a plugin, it can send MIDI to other tracks within Pro Tools. The other DAWs that some forum members are using don't have both of these capabilities. Based upion this, I would switch DAWs if these functions were important to me.

No one is arguing whether 16 virtual outs is enough or not enough. But clearly you can export up to 128 tracks plus 8 submixes to import into your DAW.



The problem is the Ren, DOESN'T provide mono channels, as every MPC before it does. You can't send a sound out of just channel 3 on the Ren, even if the sound is mono. It has to be sent out 3-4 and panned hard left. You're forced to send every sound out of a stereo output. Luckily for us Pro Tools users, we can select only one channel of a pair of Ren outputs on a mono audio track. However, Machine operates the exact same way in this regard. It just has twice the amount of outputs as Ren!
Last edited by DJ Hellfire on Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By DJ Hellfire Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:53 pm
JAH wrote:Upon closer look, the MPC Ren plugins are different. The RTAS version DOES have 16 mono or 8 stereo outputs as shown in this video:



However, the AU MPC Ren plugin for Logic only has 8 stereo pairs as far as I can tell. But I am no where near an experienced Logic user.

I haven't tested the VST version yet.



Have you noticed your drums sound weaker when you panned them hard left/right?
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By JAH Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:45 am
DJ Hellfire wrote:
JAH wrote:IF the Ren provides the MONO channels we are discussing and the DAW of your choice can't see the MONO channels....I can't see how its the Ren's fault.

Pro Tools can see the Ren's MONO channels. When the Ren is used as a plugin, it can send MIDI to other tracks within Pro Tools. The other DAWs that some forum members are using don't have both of these capabilities. Based upion this, I would switch DAWs if these functions were important to me.

No one is arguing whether 16 virtual outs is enough or not enough. But clearly you can export up to 128 tracks plus 8 submixes to import into your DAW.



The problem is the Ren, DOESN'T provide mono channels, as every MPC before it does. You can't send a sound out of just channel 3 on the Ren, even if the sound is mono. It has to be sent out 3-4 and panned hard left. You're forced to send every sound out of a stereo output. Luckily for us Pro Tools users, we can select only one channel of a pair of Ren outputs on a mono audio track. However, Machine operates the exact same way in this regard. It just has twice the amount of outputs as Ren!


I am fully aware what hardware MPCs do. I have submitted features request for every function that a hardware MPC can do that the Ren doesn't. The same goes for MV-8800 and Maschine. So I don't invest too much time debating in this regard. Akai developers can choose to implement these functions or not.

But what I do is use the Ren as is and discover ways to use it to my advantage as seen in the supporting video. The video is not showing a new concept. Analog mixers I have used in the past use the same technique of panning hard left/hard right to send channels out busses.
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By DJ Hellfire Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:10 am
JAH wrote:The video is not showing a new concept. Analog mixers I have used in the past use the same technique of panning hard left/hard right to send channels out busses.


Yes, I'm aware it's not a new concept as I've used this method with Maschine for the last year and with my XL for several years before that, and even made a thread over a month ago explaining exactly what the video shows for the Ren! But the thing is with software that can be programmed nearly anyway you want, we can't keep using the "this is how it was in the past" for everything. Some things can/should be done the same, but many things should be updated and more streamline. And by no means should any basic/commonly-used features, like routing to mono outs, be removed.
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By JAH Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:53 am
DJ Hellfire wrote:
JAH wrote:The video is not showing a new concept. Analog mixers I have used in the past use the same technique of panning hard left/hard right to send channels out busses.


Yes, I'm aware it's not a new concept as I've used this method with Maschine for the last year and with my XL for several years before that, and even made a thread over a month ago explaining exactly what the video shows for the Ren! But the thing is with software that can be programmed nearly anyway you want, we can't keep using the "this is how it was in the past" for everything. Some things can/should be done the same, but many things should be updated and more streamline. And by no means should any basic/commonly-used features, like routing to mono outs, be removed.

This is actually funny. There are functions where forum members want the Ren to be exactly like the past. And then other functions where the past isn't good enough and folks want it changed NOW! :lol: New MPCs have never done everything their predecessors done. What is basic/common for one person is not that for another.

Note that these new MPCs were built from the ground up. It’s not like the MPC 60 to MPC 3000...MPC 2000 to 2000XL...or MPC 1000 to 2500; these products use the same/similar OS that Akai built upon instead of completely re-writing as seen in the Ren/Studio. Being a new product, I don't think anything was removed.....more like certain functions were not implemented (yet). It takes a lot of time to develop and test which many users here seem to be completely unaware of.

When the Ren was put on display at Namm last year, it was just a prototype. The software wasn't fully functional. You had Dan writing down feature requests at Namm and also frequenting this forum for feedback. A few months pass and forum members start crying that the Ren isn't available....and now it’s available, people are upset that there favorite feature isn't implemented.
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By DJ Hellfire Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:50 am
JAH wrote:
DJ Hellfire wrote:
JAH wrote:The video is not showing a new concept. Analog mixers I have used in the past use the same technique of panning hard left/hard right to send channels out busses.


Yes, I'm aware it's not a new concept as I've used this method with Maschine for the last year and with my XL for several years before that, and even made a thread over a month ago explaining exactly what the video shows for the Ren! But the thing is with software that can be programmed nearly anyway you want, we can't keep using the "this is how it was in the past" for everything. Some things can/should be done the same, but many things should be updated and more streamline. And by no means should any basic/commonly-used features, like routing to mono outs, be removed.



This is actually funny. There are functions where forum members want the Ren to be exactly like the past. And then other functions where the past isn't good enough and folks want it changed NOW! :lol: New MPCs have never done everything their predecessors done. What is basic/common for one person is not that for another.

Note that these new MPCs were built from the ground up. It’s not like the MPC 60 to MPC 3000...MPC 2000 to 2000XL...or MPC 1000 to 2500; these products use the same/similar OS that Akai built upon instead of completely re-writing as seen in the Ren/Studio. Being a new product, I don't think anything was removed.....more like certain functions were not implemented (yet). It takes a lot of time to develop and test which many users here seem to be completely unaware of.

When the Ren was put on display at Namm last year, it was just a prototype. The software wasn't fully functional. You had Dan writing down feature requests at Namm and also frequenting this forum for feedback. A few months pass and forum members start crying that the Ren isn't available....and now it’s available, people are upset that there favorite feature isn't implemented.



Yeah, it is funny! I noticed that as well! :lol: I think it's depends on a feature by feature basis. For example, things that are specific to the MPC workflow like sample routing, swing, quantize, enveloping, don't need to change. But things that directly compete with or function like DAW's or modern production software, like the mixer, chopping features, midi editing needs to be changed. For example, with a mixer laid out like every common DAW or analog desk, you can't keep the same gain structure of 0-100 like old MPC's. And other things may not need to completely change nor stay the exact same, but maybe just a slight updating, which is how much of the Ren was approached, which I really like.

But certain things, are equally common/basic to everyone, like mono routing. This is something that every analog drum machine (not just MPC's) with 8 or more outs is capable of. Something like ADSR or pad cycle is a different story! I'd agree that features like that aren't as equally common to everyone. But things like routing, purge, use of the data wheel, etc, are things that are (or should be) equally common to any experienced MPC user.

As far as guys crying about favorite features being missing, for me, what annoys me is not that an important feature is missing, it's more of having to explain WHY a missing feature is so important. I feel like it's shit we shouldn't have to explain to you or Akai what the importance is. It's things that MPC users and DAW users and Akai should already know the reasons why certain features are important. It's not like anyone is suggesting that the Ren should warm up coffee. Then yeah, I can see you asking why exactly the Ren should heat coffee! :lol: But to have to explain to gear creators why the current style of NDC is no good or why routing to submixes sucks ass is frustrating when you feel like you have to fight to make them see the importance in something you feel they should already understand the importance of!
By bobbybland Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:17 am
DJ Hellfire wrote:what annoys me is not that an important feature is missing, it's more of having to explain WHY a missing feature is so important. I feel like it's **** we shouldn't have to explain to you or Akai what the importance is.


1000
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By JAH Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:05 am
@Hellfire

I agree with 99.99% of what you wrote. However, would you have preferred that Akai not release the Ren until every function that you find essential is implemented? Would you prefer Akai not add any new or improved function until all standard MPCs functions are implemented first?
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By DJ Hellfire Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:40 am
JAH wrote:@Hellfire

I agree with 99.99% of what you wrote. However, would you have preferred that Akai not release the Ren until every function that you find essential is implemented? Would you prefer Akai not add any new or improved function until all standard MPCs functions are implemented first?



Honestly, yes! And not only for my own personal needs, but for the sake of the company and the product being the king flagship. Kinda hurts the reputation if the new flagship can't perform several simple tasks common to all/most MPC's. We all know that new gear get's HEAVILY scrutinized for not having common features of gear that is several years older. Look how Maschine got trashed for not having timestretch all these years and still get's trashed for it's basic midi capabilities. Before adding anything new, I would rather them concentrate on the missing functions AND improve on already implemented features, like mixer, NDC, and the epileptic waveform scrolling to name a few!

The things is, you can change how an old feature functions. People may have to learn the new way of doing it, but at least they can still do it. But if they just completely can't do at all something they could in the past, they aren't gonna be happy. It seems like missing basic features is causing more grief than the bugs and crashing around here. And it will continue to cause more grief threads as the software becomes more stable and people don't have bugs and crashing to complain about!

But on the other hand people will talk shit either way. Once you add all the missing basic features that old MPC's can do, people will start to complain about things that other current gear can do that the Ren can't! :lol:
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By JAH Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:40 am
DJ Hellfire wrote:
But on the other hand people will talk **** either way. Once you add all the missing basic features that old MPC's can do, people will start to complain about things that other current gear can do that the Ren can't! :lol:


And that pretty much sums up what I have been saying.
By bobbybland Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:36 pm
So I loaded up my Pro Tools 10 rig today to test 1.3 and so far it's alot more stable in pro tools 10, then any previous releases, this is a good thing.

Took the time to create a template, but now when playing back the track, after setting up all the outputs, No sound will play when pressing play.. As soon as I press stop, i can hear the sounds as i trigger them from the mpc,

is there any reason why this should be happening? Is THIS A BUG OR USER ERROR? I followed the youtube video, and everything I could gather from this thread..

UPDATE -> USER ERROR pro Tools must be in record mode, or hit the input monitor button.. to hear any audio back.. got it..

Now to the 2nd question, if we load other kits on top of the kit we took the time to setup in ren, panning and setting up outputs, will it overwrite the settings? Is there a way to only load drums, but not change track settings?
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By Jive Talking Robot Mon May 20, 2013 4:50 am
I was trying to get mono channels out and thought I must be screwing something up: surly Akai would have had implemented the ability to simply turn 8 stereo pairs in to 16 mono...

...and then I found this thread.

I take it this has not yet been implemented? Is it on the to-do list?

Can they add sync out on all 4 Midi ports while they are at it?

I really and truly love the Ren, but every now and again I run in to such really rudimentarily things that have not been implemented. I know the workarounds of course (hard panning)... but seriously, shouldn't something this basic not have a work around? I mean the concept of running mono outs of your drum machines is hardly something new...