Anybody missing a pitch envelope or mod envelope in the samp

JAH wrote:The JJ OS I am running doesn't have Amp Decay Mode unless I am over looking it.

AHDSR, not Amp Decay Mode. It was discussed here.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=163175

The 4K can achieve the same envelope curves as the 2KXL, which is what people were requesting.

Jonespnice1 wrote:

stupid wrote:My reply had nothing to do with missing or existing features. Its the constant "blame" of it did not exist or not all mpcs could do this!

It gets irrelevant after a while, comparing software to actual hardware limitations. ofc we cant expect everything or close to half. But stop using that as a reason to turn down requests or criticism.

Thats all i have to say.

To be honest I think the point of the matter is the REN doesn't have this feature or that feature so I think JaH just pointed out some ways to work around it. I would like the REN to have a bunch of features but it currently doesn't so I think this forum is an excellent resource for finding out how to work around the REN's limitations, and I think JaH (along with others) do a good job helping out forum members.

As always, I couldn't have said it any better. I am still hoping Tutor would create a Ren sub forum where Ren users can discuss 1. Bugs, 2. Feature Suggestions, 3. General discussion/technical support.

JJ OS Forum gets more love than this one. And the NI Forum is set-up perfectly. As it stands now, the Ren forum is essentially a feature request forum.

Coz wrote:

JAH wrote:The JJ OS I am running doesn't have Amp Decay Mode unless I am over looking it.

AHDSR, not Amp Decay Mode. It was discussed here.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=163175

The 4K can achieve the same envelope curves as the 2KXL, which is what people were requesting.

The 2KXL is just like the 3000. The 4000 changed it up a bit. The 2500/1000 took it back to the 2KXL and 3000.

What 'Ren' users want was discussed in this forum. 1.4 is the answer. Hang tight it is on the way.

As I wrote above, feel free to share your 4000 tips as I can't get mine to perform as flawless as my MPC 3000 in this regard.

Most Ren users are current or ex hardware MPC users. The most vocal users wanted the the 2KXL method judging by the multi-page thread.

If you need tips on using your 4K there's a dedicated forum here. There's obviously some user error on your part.

Coz wrote:Most Ren users are current or ex hardware MPC users. The most vocal users wanted the the 2KXL method judging by the multi-page thread.

If you need tips on using your 4K there's a dedicated forum here. There's obviously some user error on your part.

The 2KXL method is identical to the method employed by two MPCs that came before it and at least two MPCs that came after it.

I'm glad Akai brought back the MPC 3000 Decay Modes for the Ren...and not the 4000s method so my user error what come into play.

JAH wrote:I'm glad Akai brought back the MPC 3000 Decay Modes for the Ren...and not the 4000s method so my user error what come into play.

Yep, better to keep it simple.

JAH wrote:Then you would hate hardware MPCs that cost as much as $4000 without this functionality yet produced 'punchy drums and snappy snares'. I am not debating whether this feature should or shouldn't be included. Just making a point that what you proclaim is a basic feature has not been included in the premiere sampling drum machine line in history....used by producers that take the sound of their drums seriously.

I don't own any of those old hardware MPC's.
So the MPC 4000 doesn't have a Pitch envelope?!? Thats horrible...

If you want to make realistic drums pitch envelopes can be used to simulate the tightening of skin of a drum like in real life for another example.

Yes I think it's a basic function and I didn't realize it was never included in any of the previous MPC's and I think it's an extremely bad oversight.

I just think that a Mod envelope that you can assign to Pitch or a dedicated Pitch envelope would be extremely helpful in opening up more ways to create unique sounds.

Airyck wrote:So the MPC 4000 doesn't have a Pitch envelope?!? Thats horrible...

Take what you read with a grain of salt.

Just because the 4K doesn't have a function labelled "Pitch Envelope" doesn't mean it's not simple to set up. The mod matrix alone puts most synths to shame.

Exactly Coz

I would like the Ren to step up to the 4k keygroup samplers abilities.
Akai also have a huge sample library with many treasures in it, hopefully it wasn't lost when they went bust.
G

I find the MPC 4000 bloated...and the least user friendly MPC ever created. It's 1 model out of....10 hardware units. So when I say no pitch envelopes...this is MPCs in general.
A feature that no previous MPC needed for banging drums. While we are on the subject I am curious to know if any of the classic drum machines/samplers included this function.

As pointed out earlier....VSTs are the way to go. Now that the Ren is going to be 64 bit, I can fully utilize my Mach Five 3 sampler which capabilities far exceed the MPC 4000's sampler in most if not all aspects.

Now that InMusic has acquired multiple software companies, I would like to see new plugin releases that integrate with the Ren like the MPC expansions....and on the level that Komplete integrates with Maschine.

JAH wrote:I find the MPC 4000 bloated...and the least user friendly MPC ever created.

The features to ease of use ratio is pretty spot on with the 4K. It's a deep machine so it requires a bit of matter between the ears, but it's in no way bloated for those that want functionality that no other MPC has. Having buttons for everything makes it pretty fluid. Drag and drop program editing is also there if people want to work from the computer.

JAH wrote:As pointed out earlier....VSTs are the way to go. Now that the Ren is going to be 64 bit, I can fully utilize my Mach Five 3 sampler which capabilities far exceed the MPC 4000's sampler in most if not all aspects.

A few months ago 64 bit was "unimportant" to you, but now it's the best thing since sliced bread. You want to make your mind up. The 'sampler within a sampler' line you keep repeating is pretty lame really. Nobody expects to drop $1300 on a sampler to then have to look elsewhere for standard sampler functionality.

Coz wrote:
The features to ease of use ratio is pretty spot on with the 4K. It's a deep machine so it requires a bit of matter between the ears, but it's in no way bloated for those that want functionality that no other MPC has. Having buttons for everything makes it pretty fluid. Drag and drop program editing is also there if people want to work from the computer.

The MPC 4000 is no deeper than the hardware rack mount samplers that were available when it was released. (the same samplers that were quickly killed off for various reasons). The way Akai implemented some of its features ruined the MPC workflow IMO. Too much tabbing around and plenty of producers quickly kicked it to the curb in favor of older models. Aksys was a joke according to the MPC 4000 forum members that were using it back in 2002; it was far from stable according to reports. You can dig deep in the MPC 4000 forum and read all the complaints. Almost a decade later, we have individuals buying them cheap and hyping them up. The only reason why I turn on the MPC 4000 today is for comparing/contrasting features with other MPCs and providing feedback to Akai in hopes they don't make the same mistake. Enough said on the MPC 4000.

Coz wrote:A few months ago 64 bit was "unimportant" to you, but now it's the best thing since sliced bread. You want to make your mind up. The 'sampler within a sampler' line you keep repeating is pretty lame really. Nobody expects to drop $1300 on a sampler to then have to look elsewhere for standard sampler functionality.

'Unimportant' isn't the correct term. 64 bit was 'less important' to me as I wanted Akai to focus on Sample Edit Trim/Chop capabilities...some of which you will see in 1.4. (Thanks Akai!).

It requires a bit of matter between the ears to understand this has nothing to do with a 'sampler within a sampler' as you are making this out to be. The Ren is a workstation first. You will continue to struggle understanding until you grasp this concept. The sampler is just a small part of the feature set...which is the case with most MPCs. What Akai calls a 'Drum program' and 'Keygroup program' are nothing more than integrated stock sample players/plugin instruments with the Ren/Studio MPC software. It's not absurd to suggest Pro Tools, Logic, Live, DP, Nuendo, Cubase, *Maschine, etc users to invest in sampler plugins such as Kontakt, Mach 5, BPM, Geist, HALion, Structure, Ableton Sampler, Battery, etc which exceed the basic, stock samplers that ship with these DAWs. It's the same concept with the Ren.

To wrap this up, I personally submitted the Pitch Envelope feature request to Akai on Thursday, 6 December 2012 (to go along with the other several hundred feature requests) the last time forum members had this discussion. Until this feature suggestion is implemented as an addition to MPC drum and keygroup programs...use one of the available plugin samplers on the market. I suggest Battery 4.

JAH wrote:The way Akai implemented some of its features ruined the MPC workflow IMO. Too much tabbing around and plenty of producers quickly kicked it to the curb in favor of older models.

Lets talk specifics.

What exactly 'ruined the workflow'? A prime example of a ruined workflow is having to 'tab around' being forced to use overly sensitive q-links, a data wheel that is shockingly underused, and various operations that require the mouse. That's a vibe killer right there.

JAH wrote:Aksys was a joke according to the MPC 4000 forum members that were using it back in 2002; it was far from stable according to reports. You can dig deep in the MPC 4000 forum and read all the complaints.

I don't deal in speculation and hearsay. AKsys works as intended for me when I need it. I've also read the 4K forum back to front so I know about the issues people had back in the day. There's never been a better time to get a 'cheap' MPC 4000.

JAH wrote:The only reason why I turn on the MPC 4000 today is for comparing/contrasting features with other MPCs and providing feedback to Akai

You're not doing a very good job then.

You should stop bringing the 4K into the Ren forum conversations (constantly) because the misinformation you blurt out stems from a combination of user error and cluelessness of the machine 99% of the time.

JAH wrote:The sampler is just a small part of the feature set...which is the case with most MPCs. What Akai calls a 'Drum program' and 'Keygroup program' are nothing more than integrated stock sample players/plugin instruments with the Ren/Studio MPC software.

This statement shows your fundamental lack of knowledge relating to producing music with these machines. The features of an MPC program help you manipulate and shape your samples, which is essentially what this entire thread is about.

I know MPCs quite well thank you. And will continue to discuss and reference their functionality when related topics are posted.

Staying on topic...we can discuss the Ren, MPC 4000s pitch envelope or lack of one as much as you like. All the other specifics can be discussed in a separate thread (and I have plenty to say).

JAH wrote:All the other specifics can be discussed in a separate thread (and I have plenty to say).

Feel free to start a thread in the 4K forum discussing how Akai 'ruined the workflow'... oh, you can't can you? I forgot that your forum privileges have been gimped to only allow you to post in the Ren section.

You're the only person that disparages hardware MPCs out of 45,000 members here (other than emptynutsack), so it's only fair that technical misinformation is corrected in a technical forum.