[request] notes to tempo function

request:

this function will adjust the tempo of a sequence according to a selected note. e.g.

You have a 1-bar sample that has an unsteady tempo, you can't match a 1-bar sequence to its tempo. With the function you would just have to record 4 quarter notes according to how you hear the unsteady sample. Then you'd use the note2tempo function to select the four quarter notes, tell the MPC that they are qurter notes and the MPC will automatically insert a tempo event at the time of each of the four notes.

I have a Roland VSR-880 multitrack recorder. It has a marker track that you can convert to a tempo track.

I think Ableton LIVE has a similar function.

sometimes called groove template, etc. i like this idea a lot. would allow you to use the grid/TC more without sacrificing groove.

Or you could use Q-link slider for tempo mapping. just set BPM range round your loop. and record this to track. This will allow you to actually do what y atalking about pretty easily

bliprock wrote:Or you could use Q-link slider for tempo mapping. just set BPM range round your loop. and record this to track. This will allow you to actually do what y atalking about pretty easily

I don't think so. I don't see how you could use the q-link slider (assigned to tempo) to easily adjust the tempo of a sequence, actually the groove, to the groove of a sample.

Well then try it!!
how can you say stuff if you have not even tried. Works a treat.
Set BPM range of Q-Link slider to suit sample and away you go. I mean you are likely to be going in one direction as well, so even easier. So increase tempo for example, like say a cresendo in tekno, say from 124 BPM to say 132 BPM. set these in the Q-link Range and push it up as you play. Couple of goes and i usually get it. Also can just do it a few BPM say for a band thats not in time, or doing small tempo changes in live playing.In this case set the tempo range between, for example, SET RANGE to 124 and 126 BPM and then you get very accurate as you can use whole slider to go from 124 to 126.

bliprock wrote:Well then try it!!
how can you say stuff if you have not even tried. Works a treat.
Set BPM range of Q-Link slider to suit sample and away you go. I mean you are likely to be going in one direction as well, so even easier. So increase tempo for example, like say a cresendo in tekno, say from 124 BPM to say 132 BPM. set these in the Q-link Range and push it up as you play. Couple of goes and i usually get it. Also can just do it a few BPM say for a band thats not in time, or doing small tempo changes in live playing.In this case set the tempo range between, for example, SET RANGE to 124 and 126 BPM and then you get very accurate as you can use whole slider to go from 124 to 126.

I think we're talking about different things.

I just tried this method, created a two bar sample, played the metronome and recorded an audio clip with some percussion (simple 4/4 hits) but deliberately played it first slower, then faster, then slower, than along with the metronome, and at the end faster. So i got an audio clip with very unsteady groove, many tempo changes.

I then tried to use the Q-link slider to record tempo changes into a drum track. I can't get the metronome clicks to sync with the beats I recorded.

what exactly are you trying to do astro? what are you aiming for?

you kinda complicate things if you are changing tempo of samples as well. so obviously there is samples tempo and sequence tempo, and on top of this is your drums. your drums have to be sequenced correctly so that start of drum is start of sequence and in time to sequences tempo first. Then the sequence then follows samples tempo. this allows tempo of the sequence to guide the drums so to speak.

You can see that you can change the tempo live, but you hear the metronome lag behind your crazy sample. This is because metronome plays current tempo, and wont change till you change tempo with the Q-link slider to match what ever sample you choose. So really you should turn of the metronome as it will confuse you and not change till you move Q-link slider as such and seem not in tempo at all.

Really here you need some idea of what tempo range you are dealing with and also the change in tempo can be gradual or quick but if you get the basics right you can do anything.

First thing you have to do is sequence those drums right. Get this down, and everything will work. No tempo change needed here, as long as drum sequence is in time with the sequence then most work is done. This is not sample loops I am talking about but sequenced drum parts. Play your drum sequence at 75 BPM or 175BPM and it should stay in time so to speak right ie tempo of sequence is irrelavent as you have written a beat correctly and it loops at any speed. Four to the floor beats illustrate this very well and of course are the easiest to make and also the easiest to hear tempo change. I suggest you just write a 4/4 house beat thats tight for practice. kick on start of each quarter bar for two bars. simple beat but it works at any BPM so you know you have sequenced the beat right. now your making house i know but its the easiest beat to follow.

Secondly you now layer the sequence and sample with the tempo change, and adjust tempo to match that sample. Ok so as you now have a drum sequence that will follow master tempo changes to match to sample tempo, but because you made the drum sequence right, you will only need to follow tempo of sample with tempo change of seqence (Q-Link slider), and if sequence matches sample tempo, then drums match tempo to as its in time with the sequence. So it will follow more accurately.

If you make a crazy sample with crazy pitch shifts this means it will have different degrees of deceleration and acceleration of tempo. Which means its very unlike a band that changes tempo evenly, say between verse and chorus, which is a more natural modulation of tempo. So you see you are making the job harder trying to match crazy pitch shifting. It can be done but its much much harder as you have no idea what is going on BPM wise, and how fast and slow the tempo changes are.

I suggest you actually do it again right, but not with a pitch shifted sample but sample direct out of a sequence you have made of drums, say hip hop beat, sped up with Q-link slider only 20 BPM (ie 90 BPM to 110 BPM). so then you have a sample of a beat that changes tempo. Put that sample into a audio track in another sequence with that tekno fopur to the floor house beat. Then use this as a practice sample to match to. It would mean you can try and recreate the tempo change that you did do before, with Q-link slider again, and start on same BPM and use the same Q-Link slider settings for tempo to make it easier.

You should be able to recreate the tempo change you did originally. so you can do a quick change or a slow change, but the second time always has to match before right so a slow change first then fast change second will not work as change in tempo does not match in essence. sure start and end tempos might match but not the rate of tempo change. That is the essence of it, not just tempo match but rate of tempo change has to be matched. Its easier that it seems. Trying above should work for you and hopefully get you matching tempo changes easily. So again its tempo and rate of tempo changes to bear in mind. Also nothing will work if drum sequence is not right. Give that a go and see how you can in fact match tempo pretty easily if you have the basic foundations right first.

bliprock wrote:what exactly are you trying to do astro? what are you aiming for?

I don't know how to explain the concept of groove maps if you don't understand.

maybe this example will help:

You turn on the metronome, 120BPM, start playing a rhythm, say 4/4, on bongos, you record this through the mic to yo mpc.

Now, when you play the bongos you get carried away, you kinda feel/think you're in time, but you're not, you're slower/faster/slower/faster and so on.

The steady 120bpm tempo looks like this:

I.......I.......I.......I.......

"I" is the beat, so 4/4 u have four "I's"


now this is what you recorded:

I......I.........I......I.......I.........I.......I......I.......

So a groove map would adjust the MPCs tempo according to the "I's".

lmao astro.... go on try what i wrote first. It will take a bit of time but you will gain heaps. I know what a groove map is. In fact if you actually use the above method you will be able to copy and paste them to other sequences. cos thats what ya want right?? Rip of the timing of other music to make yours?? thats what most people do, and IMHO its not a great way to make grooves sit in a sequence. BUT, if on the other hand you are actually trying to make a drum sequence match your played tempo of say bongos then this is definitely the way to do it. Very easy and flexible.

astronaut wrote:Now, when you play the bongos you get carried away, you kinda feel/think you're in time, but you're not, you're slower/faster/slower/faster and so on.

The steady 120bpm tempo looks like this:

I.......I.......I.......I.......

"I" is the beat, so 4/4 u have four "I's"


now this is what you recorded:

I......I.........I......I.......I.........I.......I......I.......

So a groove map would adjust the MPCs tempo according to the "I's".

yep this is exactly what i am talking about. "I"s being on the first beat of every bar and tempo changes means bars are different lengths of time. Yes thats why i wrote that stuff above, so you can then play a drum sequence over it and its in time with your bongos.

in fact your example would have continuous tempo changes to match your wild bongos. obviously you do this bar by bar, or do rough take then simply edit the tempo sequence data as needed to get it to match perfect. do the above method and you can then drop any drum sequence on top and it always will be in time. Killer

But again its about how fast the tempo changes and not just the actual tempo itself. You understand this?? You might have the tempos right but not the shift in tempo right, and it will sound wrong. This is an important point, as it can be the crux of the groove so to speak. And also IMO why the MPC will never be able to automate it.

So if your ripping off grooves then you suck, but if really trying to match tempos to samples that are a bit tempo wild then kudos. it will make stuff feel more human, but yeah there still is plain just out of time. watch that. your ears are what helps here.

You never try what I post astro, you are very predictable. I gotcha this thread didnt I? twice in fact. I said try it, cos I know you didnt as usual, just wanna write me of as I cause you too much work or argue against you. I think cos I called you out on not trying it pissed you off you actually tried it, and then didnt really work, and wrote it off as a no go. So next time try it first then tell me it dosnt work and we can skip half the thread. But no its cool you tried it, and thats good, and not to be discouraged. More of it, more trying stuff. ok ?

But in this case it is a bit different as you do not fully get it and thats ok, just not trying stuff is shame in ya game, learning is no shame ok! so yeah we are on the same page and take your time this time. just remember the basics, like the sequence has a tempo map but it is set by you and it can match any tempo change if required, by adding those tempo changes. Your example seems simple but it wil have lots of steady changes in the tempo as it gets faster and slower, and like i said above not just the tempo but the rate of change of the tempo map. So you know, is it a very gradual or sudden change in tempo?? get that sequence tempo right and everything falls into time. Thats how it works, and man its great for between songs as well, thats at different tempos.

yep this is exactly what i am talking about. "I"s being on the first beat of every bar and tempo changes means bars are different lengths of time. Yes thats why i wrote that stuff above, so you can then play a drum sequence over it and its in time with your bongos.

Nope, the "I" is not the first beat of every bar, it is the beat. So a 4/4 bar will have 4 "I's".

So you see, a steady 4/4 bar will have same amount of time between the four beats. In the second (bongo) example that time between the beats varies.

As I remember in Ableton Live (or was it another DAW?) creating a groove map is very easy. You select the audio sample, and place markers on top of the hits which correspond to the beats of a bar,.... very easy 'cause you see the wave form. the DAW then takes the markers and creates a groove map according to it. Now the global tempo of the whole project is synced to this groove map.

This would be a cool feature for the MPC; but I guess it's something that's very difficult to implement.

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I did try what you have suggested with the q-link slider, it's nowhere near an automatic groove map function. I'd rather rerecord whatever I'm recording so it is on time.

Don't know why you would want to bother. i mean, i totally understand bliprocks POV in regard to changing the tempo with the Q-Link slider for say a sample that slightly changes tempo if your trying to loop it, and man that can be a complete headfcku

What i cant understand from this, is that your having trouble playing grooves over other grooves, in which case i suggest you keep practicing your playing of the pads and try turning quantize off. Record and re-record until you got it right.

I understand what your saying, but i think for someone using an mpc theres just no point doing it for the effort involved, and Bliprocks method of using the Q-link to adjust tempo is bang on for them funky samples (and i dont mean james brown funky!)

To a certain extent patch phrases can help too.

think astro. Even if the 'I's are every beat and not just first beat, it changes NOTHING. So come on, think harder.