[request] make jjos more Live Friendly

I think there already plenty of features, and few bugs, but what annoys me every single day is that the jjos is not at all friendly for live use. Its very important to be able to leave the sequencer running constantly. For a live set, you at least want to be able to delete notes and copy tracks between sequences without having to stop the sequencer

would anyone else like this sort of direction? how about a show of support if you think it'd be worth it. what kind of improvements would you like to see? perhaps os3 could focus on live editing and playing.

The problem has always been that the original Akai hardware/sofware spec is based on legacy MPC devices which were never designed to work this way. If the hardware is the limitation, there's not much to be done besides abandon the platform.

Now if it's strictly down to a software issue, the problem so far is that the evil dirty Akai spec is still at the root of all the operating systems released for these boxes to date. If OS3 turns out to be the long awaited "slate wiper" then we might just have something.

Still, I'm really starting to feel the need to move on to a better hardware platform. There is (much) better stuff out there. Open source, too.

i dont understand what hardware limitations exist, so it doesnt hurt to request it. live-friendly use may not have been of interest to jj neither. it'd be nice to know if these really are hardware limitations or not.

what other hardware platforms would you consider, an octatrack maybe?

innovine wrote:i dont understand what hardware limitations exist, so it doesnt hurt to request it. live-friendly use may not have been of interest to jj neither. it'd be nice to know if these really are hardware limitations or not.

Don't think I'm trying to dissuade your efforts; I'm just saying that users have been requesting these kinds of basic changes to the OS for some time. The problem as far as software limits are concerned is that JJ is still working on top of Akai's basic spec and to get past this they would have to more or less start over from scratch. They communicated this issue to the forum some time ago and it's possible they've been experimenting with a new system base for awhile but if so I have no idea how far they got or if any of that experimentation will materialize as OS3. Redoing the code to that extent just takes a lot more time and effort.

As far as hardware goes, I don't know the exact limits; I'm just going off the fiscal reality of the industry we're dealing with these days. Hardware is where the real costs are incurred, so when we're lucky, companies only design hardware to the point where it meets the basic specs they set at the design stage. When we're not so lucky they cut corners even more and we end up with products like the original MPC 1000.

innovine wrote:what other hardware platforms would you consider, an octatrack maybe?

No, an Octatrack is a combined proprietary hardware/software package produced by a relatively new company whose main strength was always in the software department, typical of most code-kid startups you see these days. Most of the real hardware know-how comes from people who were around in the days when you had to use real hardware as simulating everything in a DSP just wasn't an option. I suspect this is the reason I've seen one to many Elektron boxes fry themselves in the past, though I have no direct experience with the Octotrack yet.

I was thinking more in terms of pure hardware that's built for the task by people who really know how to do that stuff. The software that runs on these platforms is another matter and in most cases I'm aware of hasn't yet fully matured. If it was matured I probably would have tossed the MPC ages ago. Here's an example:

http://acp.atari.org/about.html

http://www.atarimusic.net/featured-arti ... -for-music

Sorry for bringing up an old topic then. Thanks for filling me in on a bit of the background too, that's always interesting.

I can't really see the appeal of the atari thing you linked to, for me at least, the hardware interface is really important, but if I was going to go with one of those atari things then I'd probably just be better off with a laptop, some controllers and maxmsp. But I've been there and end up programming a lot more than I end up making music. Reinventing the wheel and building my own custom instruments is a road that I've already been on. I sunk a year into building a hardware multitrack midi sequencer based on DSPic chips with just the features that I wanted, but projects like that never get completed. That's why I'd find something like an octatrack appealing. It might have a few issues, but it's at least ready to rock straight out of the box and the interface remains the same. The DIY route always has unfinished areas and flaky implementations here and there.

elektrik_muz wrote:No, an Octatrack is a combined proprietary hardware/software package produced by a relatively new company whose main strength was always in the software department

I'd have to disagree with you there. The machinedrum has the slickest feel ever (once you replace the knobs with ones that are a bit more grippy). I always thought the sound was a bit weak and wondered why they didn't release a midi only sequencer with the same interface. It feels GOOD.
I've no idea about their internals, but they sure nailed the feel of the interface. Consider too that they started the compny on the strength of the SIDstation, which doesn't have any dsp-simulation in it.

This is dirifting a bit too far OT for this section of the forum so I'll try to be brief and steer it back if I can:

innovine wrote:I've no idea about their internals

Respectfully that, IMHO says it all.

There is a fudemental difference between what you and I are defining as "hardware". As far as I'm concerned, the internals are the hardware. Potentiometers, encoders, switches and knobs on a front panel are not unimportant but the control surface is only an extension of what it is connected to inside, and if the design is lacking there the best control surface in the world ain't gonna help. The Atari Firebee has real paralel hardware designed from the ground up for realtime multimedia. Current MPCs, Elektron boxes and Mac/Windows DAWs are coded simulations running on a DSP or in top of bloated general purpose operating systems. Much trickier to code and never as accurate and reliable.

innovine wrote:Consider too that they started the compny on the strength of the SIDstation

I'm sorry but this was the point where I couldn't contain my laughter anymore. C'mon man, you're reading Elektron add copy to me now. "Strengths?" What "Strengths"? Have you ever owned or used one of those things for more than five minutes? The SidStation was an insult to the real engineers who developed the sid chip and one could argue that Elektron was trying to climb up their backs with that box. Out of all the Sid-based synths out there (there are a few, BTW) the SidStation is by very far the worst. Even an old C64 blows it away in the quality department. Here's a thread detailing my personal experience:

http://mpc-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1 ... =+elektron

I should note that my opinion of the later Elektron gear has changed since I've had a bit more experience with an MD that eventually fried itself. Failed power supply regulation I believe. Maybe it was just a bad component, but my previous experience with Elektron's poor engineering leads me to suspect otherwise. Not that I was all that dissapointed -- it wasn't mine (thankfully) and as you say the sound is a bit weak and although it's good for studio composition it's suprisingly limited for live improvisation: I know people who tour and play out regularly who, given the choice would rather just rock an old Electribe on stage: I"ve also noticed that according to some online sources the MD can't even hold time as well as the MPC 1000 with JJOS.

Like I said, no expereice with the Octatrack yet, but It's obvious that as a master sequencer/controler it doesn't really cover all the MPC bases and it's not really intended to.

I don't know if the Firebee has software keying that would allow the use of a proprietary system the way the newer MPCs do. If they do it's possible JJ could just migrate. It doesn't have to run Atari software. Anybody could put the Firebee in a box with whatever knobs, switches and front panel display they wanted, it's certainly small enough. Or just use their prefered midi control surface.

Edit/update: Looks like it wasn't the power supply components that went in the MD, more likely a fried CPU.