(BUG?) Program/bank select issue

Can someone confirm this?

JJos2xl 3.20


Problem when sending bank/program changes via midi

1. Select PC option from main screen
2. Press window to open the expanded options
3. Select a PC number
4. Change Bank Select field to "YES" and select any MSB/LSB over zero
5. Press MAIN button to return to main screen.

BUG: Program change stays the same, but bank select is reset to zero on both the MPC and the external module. Note this does NOT happen if the CLOSE option is selected from the PC window instead of using the MAIN key in step 5.

no sorry. Spent 5 - 10 minutes trying to and did not get same behaviour at all. Its weird as I use both PCs for program changes of drum tracks and change synths in MIDI and never had this problem, so that is why i tried to recreate it for you. At first I thought maybe your synth or whatever MIDI unit has local on and is sending it back but its not quite right. Maybe not though, could be something else.
I am sending PCs with MSB and LSB that are NOT zero and some that are zero. Just to try it and my workstation has no problems at all, and reflects data entry in real time as well. BONUS> so if you can not see the PCs happening to the external gear then something is not right.
I have to assume you are talking about sending these PC and LSB/MSB to external MIDI gear then? you do not say. It is what they are for anyways.

And all this is while hitting the main button to exit after and no reset at all. That is why i think its a uncheck summed PC sent back as other gear has Local on maybe. Just my 2 cents and not sure if this is the true cause of your problem. Hell could be dodgey RAM or OS install. but more than likely that behaviour tells me resent PC from my experience..... So what are you trying to program change anyways??
So sorry definitely something you are doing wrong there and you are gonna have to read the other gears MIDI implementation chart to make sure you are sending correct MSB/LSB as well of course. Guessing your doing that now though right?

Thank you for your efforts, they are appriciated though you may have missed a couple points in my post as the use of externals is mentioned.

Your Local On/Off loopback theory makes me think, however this doesn't explain 1)why acuatiing the MAIN key causes the bug and not selecting the bank number 2) why MAIN causes the bug and not CLOSE and 3) how a message sent from the external back to the MPC would cause the the MPC to reset it's displayed bank number after returning to the PC window.

AFAIK none of the externals involved have that paticular functionality, but even if I'm mistaken it's beside the point as this issue did not occor in previous JJOS revisions, and no system options have been changed.

I'm going to do some more tests, maybe try another system reset (I always do this after installing anyway). I'll report back here later.

yeah its your side I reckon, problem wise, and not a OS one, unless OS is corrupted. I do not get that at all. I was just saying by the way about the local on/off as an idea, as some gear does not check sum right or a whole load of other issues that can cause other weird issues....that is in answer to your question-

elektrik_muz wrote:3) how a message sent from the external back to the MPC would cause the the MPC to reset it's displayed bank number after returning to the PC window.

. I reckon just load OS and not reset it. Do it with MIDI in unplugged, if that stops it then its definitely the external gear!
if not then RAM or OS or PIBKAC. lol.
or..... have you got a PC in the sequence?? at the start that is conflicting? check sequence for that to muz.

elektrik_muz wrote:none of the externals involved have that paticular functionality

huh? you mean you are not sending PCs and MSB/LSB for program change/bank select? or you mean that you are sending them but the gear does not use these messages then? sorry WTF? So why are you sending PCs and MSB/LSBs if not for bank select and program changes? Or do you mean that they do not echo? all gear usually echoes thats why most gear has local on/off option. So is it to change external gears banks or programs? or to change program of drum track in the MPC? cos that is different again. I am sure you know that though.
im using MPC1000 and JJOSXL 3.20 and Fantom XR, microkorg and novation bass station and all receive the messages needed with out the problem you are encountering ever. Just so you know that I do this with many types of synths that have different MIDI specs but still with no probs at all. I also use other friends synths sometimes so know what I am doing if I can get all these to work no problems at all.

oh i forgot to say you can always try to just record into the sequence the changes from the external gear itself. you know like a controller in a way. So that way you can save your self programming the MSB/LSBs. I do this sometimes just because it is easy to do and most gear sends that, not all though. see manual

I just checked again and it's not doing it anymore. I didn't reset the MPC in fact I didn't even restart it as it's been running the entire time. This tells me I've either got an intermittent problem on my hands or I was doing a specific sequence of operations beforehand that made it screw up. There have been other issues like this in the past where a bug only shows itself under very specific conditions. Nothing else in the system was changed in any way.

I'm going to keep my eye on this to see if it happens again. BTW none of that stuff you mentioned applies here. There is no sequence, and one of the external devices in question is receive-only with no ability to generate bank select messages and no midi output connection to the MPC or anything else in the setup.

ah well least its fixed. Long operation could be it, heat or maybe RAM is getting fragmented a lot after read/write a hundred times - these things can happen. Or planet alignment who knows

man, if they could just add a bank option that works with external synths it would be dope.

i hate changing progs with mpc wheel, then walking to synth and changing bank.

peeping tom wrote:man, if they could just add a bank option that works with external synths it would be dope.

i hate changing progs with mpc wheel, then walking to synth and changing bank.

er hello ? that is exactly what we are talking about, and you can send these messages from nearly every MIDI sequencer. I do not know what MPC you are using or what OS so can not tell you instructions, but they are MIDI sequences so can do these simple MIDI commands, you have to look up MIDI implementation chart of your synth, and it will tell you the commands needed. Then insert that event. Hell try and just record that event in realtime instead, if your external MIDI gear sends the relevant MIDI then 'hey presto' you recorded a program change. there is bank select as well for MIDI so you have to know that to, and also MIDI CCs as PCs, bank selects can be used on CC 0, 32 ect. See chart. So learn all this and you will never have to get up to change a patch on a MIDI device again. this is different to program change of drum tracks, which is a program change to change the drum track program, and this is a bit different, but easily doable.
What gear are you trying to program change there peeping tom?

Just highlight PC in the main screen and press WINDOW. Both PC and BANK SELECT options are right there. You do have to enable BANK SELECT first with the YES/NO toggle. As blip says you have to know which BANK SELECT messages the external responds to.

bliprock wrote:

peeping tom wrote:man, if they could just add a bank option that works with external synths it would be dope.

i hate changing progs with mpc wheel, then walking to synth and changing bank.

er hello ? that is exactly what we are talking about, and you can send these messages from nearly every MIDI sequencer. I do not know what MPC you are using or what OS so can not tell you instructions, but they are MIDI sequences so can do these simple MIDI commands, you have to look up MIDI implementation chart of your synth, and it will tell you the commands needed. Then insert that event. Hell try and just record that event in realtime instead, if your external MIDI gear sends the relevant MIDI then 'hey presto' you recorded a program change. there is bank select as well for MIDI so you have to know that to, and also MIDI CCs as PCs, bank selects can be used on CC 0, 32 ect. See chart. So learn all this and you will never have to get up to change a patch on a MIDI device again. this is different to program change of drum tracks, which is a program change to change the drum track program, and this is a bit different, but easily doable.
What gear are you trying to program change there peeping tom?

i know what you were talking about, its why i piped in........

i have checked midi implementation, and for the life of me, it never worked!

i can change midi channel and program patch (on my synth) from the mpc, but the program bank on my synth (bank a, B, C, D) i cannot change on mpc, it defaults to bank A.

if you can figure it out id be more than appreciative.

I have mpc1000 with jjos1 v 4.99

Synth is Korg tr rack,

i got so close using the msb lsb settings, but it never got it right.

If you can help, cheers

peeping tom wrote:Synth is Korg tr rack,

K, according to the TR manual you first have to enable three sets of filters (see pg 45, 52-54 or 62 and 63 depending on which mode you are using ) for the TR to recieve control change, program change and bank select messages. I'm guessing that if you can get PC to work you just have to enable the Bank Select filter, if that's where the problem is. Pg 22 gives the basic info on PC/Bank Select and lists the B.S. numbers (MSB 0, LSB 0 - 3 for banks A thru D).

IMPORTANT: The manual also states that the synth will not change anything with Bank Select messages alone, it has to recieve a sequence of B.S. MSB, LSB and then the PC number or it will do nothing. I can see why you might have had trouble getting it to work! Now that I think of it I think I had the same trouble with an electribe once till if figured this out. Guess that's the Korg way.

As I said before, make sure the Bank Select YES/NO toggle is set correctly in the MPC PC window -- I know it sounds obvious but I missed it myself the first time I tried it.

Unfortuneately the TR doesn't transmit any of this stuff so you can't record it from the synth as blip described.

Lastly, if you get it to work let me know if you run into the problem I described in the first post.

elektrik_muz wrote:

peeping tom wrote:Synth is Korg tr rack,

K, according to the TR manual you first have to enable three sets of filters (see pg 45, 52-54 or 62 and 63 depending on which mode you are using ) for the TR to recieve control change, program change and bank select messages. I'm guessing that if you can get PC to work you just have to enable the Bank Change filter, if that's where the problem is. Pg 22 gives the basic info on PC/Bank Select and lists the B.S. numbers (MSB 0, LSB 0 - 3 for banks A thru D).

IMPORTANT: The manual also states that the synth will not change anything with Bank Select messages alone, it has to recieve a sequence of B.S. MSB, LSB and then the PC number or it will do nothing. I can see why you might have had trouble getting it to work! Now that I think of it I think I had the same trouble with an electribe once till if figured this out. Guess that's the Korg way.

As I said before, make sure the Bank Select YES/NO toggle is set correctly in the MPC PC window -- I know it sounds obvious but I missed it myself the first time I tried it.

Unfortuneately the TR doesn't transmit any of this stuff so you can't record it from the synth as blip described.

Lastly, if you get it to work let me know if you run into the problem I described in the first post.

cheers man, yeh i can change filter / volume with mpc, i can also change the program, so its bank that i havn't enabled on the TR rack, and if i have, i say its the MSB and LSB values i had set in the MPC that are incorrect.

Thankyou heaps man, i tried getting this sorted in a dedicated korg thread, but alas, no help (though lamp was pretty helpful!) so thanks for investigating and helping me out, much appreciated.

Peepin'

Ok......

Got it to work, just have to change LSB from 0 to 3 (for banks A to D, as mentioned clearly above) for it to bank change, which is cool with me, means i dont have to leave my seat.

got a midi controller coming now, so at least its intergrated into mpc now.

Cheers both you guys, much appreciated eh.

Peepin

Nice. Glad to be of help.