Inverter Questions

SDC wrote:This thing is giving me a good fight,

Looks that way, but then not all MPC60s have been well maintained. I don't know the history but how long you had this machine and where'd you get it from??

And I would suggest getting new pad sensors if you intend to keep the machine. You don't really want some that have already been pounded a million times do you? You want them as good as possible, and that means brand new.

Do you think the sensors are bad?
Btw, mine is 60 not 3k..

SDC wrote:Do you think the sensors are bad?
Btw, mine is 60 not 3k..

right right.. 60.. it's tough to remember the details of all these threads days later without reading every little part over again haha..

SDC wrote:Do you think the sensors are bad?
Btw, mine is 60 not 3k..

Well how old are they?

5, 10, 15, 20, 25 years?

Troubleshoot first, replace if all else fails.

clint246clint wrote:

SDC wrote:Do you think the sensors are bad?
Btw, mine is 60 not 3k..

Well how old are they?

5, 10, 15, 20, 25 years?

Troubleshoot first, replace if all else fails.

I'm not sure.. I get it in second hand (or more, who knows?)
Thing is, this mpc looks clean, even inside there's no signs of rusty, etc
The pads also feels good, not beat up

Hey SDC, congratulations on being the new owner of an MPC 60...unfortunately you have to deal with a few headaches before you can get it going but that is the risk we run nowadays as these machines are no longer new....
In reviewing the pics you posted on the 13th, if you look closely at where the ribbon cable comes out of the pads and into the connecting board, there seems to be a definite crimp/fold in the ribbon....quite possibly the connection might be broken on those traces, even if it doesn't look like it to the naked eye...I am not referencing a service manual right now but those traces might correlate with the pads that are giving you issues...I would suggest replacing it as repairing the ribbon cable would be a hassle if not done right...
Another thing to do, as has already been suggested, is to double check all the cable connections throughout the machine to make sure they are all seated properly...something that simple sometimes makes a world of difference...
Something else to keep in mind is you should get ready to recap the power supply...seems to me like it might be time for your particular machine from the symptoms you described....but before that try reflowing the solder joints, that might buy you some time as over the years those joints can get a little funky and/or broken, even if it doesn't look like it to the naked eye....
Hope some of this helps and good luck

Rey305 wrote:Hey SDC, congratulations on being the new owner of an MPC 60...unfortunately you have to deal with a few headaches before you can get it going but that is the risk we run nowadays as these machines are no longer new....
In reviewing the pics you posted on the 13th, if you look closely at where the ribbon cable comes out of the pads and into the connecting board, there seems to be a definite crimp/fold in the ribbon....quite possibly the connection might be broken on those traces, even if it doesn't look like it to the naked eye...I am not referencing a service manual right now but those traces might correlate with the pads that are giving you issues...I would suggest replacing it as repairing the ribbon cable would be a hassle if not done right...
Another thing to do, as has already been suggested, is to double check all the cable connections throughout the machine to make sure they are all seated properly...something that simple sometimes makes a world of difference...
Something else to keep in mind is you should get ready to recap the power supply...seems to me like it might be time for your particular machine from the symptoms you described....but before that try reflowing the solder joints, that might buy you some time as over the years those joints can get a little funky and/or broken, even if it doesn't look like it to the naked eye....
Hope some of this helps and good luck

Thanks a lot for the suggestions! When you mean ribbon, you are talking about replacing the sensor pads right?

New data:

1. Received the 3.10 chips today. The noise on the pads gone! But all the pads on the right side still not work. I'm not sure if it was the chip replacement or cleaning the sensor pads who fix it though..

2. The Hi-Hat decay slider is not working

3. I have the option of trading this 60 for a 4000... But the more i learn this thing, the more i love it!! There's definitely something special about this machine. As a previous NI Maschine user, the sound of 60 is what i was looking for - more RAW, punchier, whatever. Also the 60 is more about listen not looking...
The 4000 is tempting though, but i am not so sure anymore.

Since i am trying to fix all the issues myself, could you guys point me in the right direction for the parts needed to recapping the power supply? Links please!

SDC wrote:
3. I have the option of trading this 60 for a 4000... But the more i learn this thing, the more i love it!! There's definitely something special about this machine. As a previous NI Maschine user, the sound of 60 is what i was looking for - more RAW, punchier, whatever. Also the 60 is more about listen not looking...
The 4000 is tempting though, but i am not so sure anymore.

Since i am trying to fix all the issues myself, could you guys point me in the right direction for the parts needed to recapping the power supply? Links please!

hey.. honestly... if it's a straight trade.. maybe add up how much you put into it.. I would consider that. You could maybe snag another 60 for cheap... cheaper than a 4k I would think.. maybe not with the 3.10 OS though. Look into the details for that trade... it might actually be worth it at least monetarily.

mr_debauch wrote:

SDC wrote:
3. I have the option of trading this 60 for a 4000... But the more i learn this thing, the more i love it!! There's definitely something special about this machine. As a previous NI Maschine user, the sound of 60 is what i was looking for - more RAW, punchier, whatever. Also the 60 is more about listen not looking...
The 4000 is tempting though, but i am not so sure anymore.

Since i am trying to fix all the issues myself, could you guys point me in the right direction for the parts needed to recapping the power supply? Links please!

hey.. honestly... if it's a straight trade.. maybe add up how much you put into it.. I would consider that. You could maybe snag another 60 for cheap... cheaper than a 4k I would think.. maybe not with the 3.10 OS though. Look into the details for that trade... it might actually be worth it at least monetarily.

Yes, it's a straight trade.
I've read a few VS threads about both, and the opinions are mixed..
You have a 4k and a 60 right? Care to share your thoughts?

Edit: My main objective with the MPC is sequencing beats, nothing more. So i am after THE SOUND (I had a NI Machine and found it sterile).
Actually i like the idea of sampling kits to floppy's - Store, let's say a TR808 kit in one floppy, and use it everytime i need it.

If I could ditch a flakey MPC60 for an MPC4000 I wouldn't think twice.

Firstly, as Rey305 mentioned, there's definitely a problem on that pad sensor's connector, which would cause the pad problems mentioned. I think that's going to need a pad sensor replacement. (It looks like it would be difficult to just fix those broken tracks.)

Two issues that can cause extra inverter noise (high pitched square-wave type sound that seems to be coming from the inverter or the power supply)

1. Bad capacitor C1 inside the inverter:
Symptoms: noise seems to be coming from the power supply, noise also present in the audio outputs.
If you are going to recap the power supply, it's well worth replacing one of the caps in the inverter too. Because the one electrolytic cap in there is responsible for filtering out the high frequency noise from the inverter - if this cap isn't working properly, the inverter noise leaks back into the power supply and makes a lot of noise there - and the noise also makes it through to the audio outputs.

The main guts of the MPC60/60II inverter are covered by a metal cube-shaped, erm.... cover. Have a look underneath the board, you can remove this cover by desoldering the 3 very large solder points. Now lift off the cover.

You'll see one electrolytic capacitor, C1. It's 220 microfarads, 16V. This is worth replacing.

2. Loose metal cover around the transformer T1:
Symptoms: Noise coming from the inverter, audio signal is not affected.
Notice that the small transformer on this inverter circuit is surrounded by a circular metal 'ring', and it is only very loosely held in place by a little piece of dried-out old tape. Take off this metal ring, gently slide it off. Now wrap some electrical tape around the ring so that the metal of the ring won't touch that metal cover when you replace it. Slide the ring back into place over the transformer, and take another small piece of electrical tape and stick the ring to the top of the transformer - this stops the ring from moving about or slipping off, something else that increases noise in the inverter.

Changing capacitor C1 should eliminate inverter noise from leaking into the audio. But the inverter itself might still make some noise, it doesn't seem possible to silence it completely. It also depends a lot on the backlight, some just cause more noise than others - I'm working on that

I should take some photos of the inside of the inverter so you can see what I'm talking about..... coming soon...

Matt

Thanks for the dope knowledge on the backlights/inverters matt, and for your service on ebay. Very handy

MisterWhite wrote:Firstly, as Rey305 mentioned, there's definitely a problem on that pad sensor's connector, which would cause the pad problems mentioned. I think that's going to need a pad sensor replacement. (It looks like it would be difficult to just fix those broken tracks.)

Two issues that can cause extra inverter noise (high pitched square-wave type sound that seems to be coming from the inverter or the power supply)

1. Bad capacitor C1 inside the inverter:
Symptoms: noise seems to be coming from the power supply, noise also present in the audio outputs.
If you are going to recap the power supply, it's well worth replacing one of the caps in the inverter too. Because the one electrolytic cap in there is responsible for filtering out the high frequency noise from the inverter - if this cap isn't working properly, the inverter noise leaks back into the power supply and makes a lot of noise there - and the noise also makes it through to the audio outputs.

The main guts of the MPC60/60II inverter are covered by a metal cube-shaped, erm.... cover. Have a look underneath the board, you can remove this cover by desoldering the 3 very large solder points. Now lift off the cover.

You'll see one electrolytic capacitor, C1. It's 220 microfarads, 16V. This is worth replacing.

2. Loose metal cover around the transformer T1:
Symptoms: Noise coming from the inverter, audio signal is not affected.
Notice that the small transformer on this inverter circuit is surrounded by a circular metal 'ring', and it is only very loosely held in place by a little piece of dried-out old tape. Take off this metal ring, gently slide it off. Now wrap some electrical tape around the ring so that the metal of the ring won't touch that metal cover when you replace it. Slide the ring back into place over the transformer, and take another small piece of electrical tape and stick the ring to the top of the transformer - this stops the ring from moving about or slipping off, something else that increases noise in the inverter.

Changing capacitor C1 should eliminate inverter noise from leaking into the audio. But the inverter itself might still make some noise, it doesn't seem possible to silence it completely. It also depends a lot on the backlight, some just cause more noise than others - I'm working on that

I should take some photos of the inside of the inverter so you can see what I'm talking about..... coming soon...

Matt

Wow, this is something!
In my case the inverter noise doesn't leak into the audio outputs, so i guess i will try your option #2 first. Some photos of the process will be awesome!
I'm in need of some parts - are you a dealer?

SDC wrote:I'm in need of some parts - are you a dealer?

You need a capacitor and some electrical tape, not really specialty items, can't you just go buy them locally?

If you can't buy them locally, I don't think you have much chance of desoldering a capacitor and resoldering a new one in it's place, as well as desoldering the connection tabs for the cover, anyway.

SimonInAustralia wrote:

SDC wrote:I'm in need of some parts - are you a dealer?

You need a capacitor and some electrical tape, not really specialty items, can't you just go buy them locally?

If you can't buy them locally, I don't think you have much chance of desoldering a capacitor and resoldering a new one in it's place, as well as desoldering the connection tabs for the cover, anyway.

I need pad sensors, etc