Using 1.44HD floppies with Mpc60II

People seem to be split on whether putting tape over 1.44 diskettes is a good/bad idea. Any sort of final work on whether it ruins your drive by doing it? Just have so many 1.44 disks left over from my 3000... be nice to use them instead of buying a bunch more 720K's ... I will if I to though... not worth ruining my disk drive.

Any help or information is appreciated. Thank you.

I can't remember if the old OS (2.02) will do it, since i've used it only for a day, but i know for sure that with the new OS (3.10) you can format HD floppies with the MPC60. It'll format it like a DD floppy and you'll have 793k to use on it.

Why tape? Just format the disks with the MPC.

The magnetic fields in 720kb and 1.44mb floppies are different densities
If you write data to a 1.44mb disk using a 720kb drive there is a high chance of your data becoming corrupted as the drive can't penetrate the magnetic field of the disk deeply enough .

jibber wrote: It'll format it like a DD floppy and you'll have 793k to use on it.

DD's have 800kb capacity. It's just that PC's and some other things will format them to 720kb.
You get 800kb out of them on Amigas and some of the older Akai library on DD had 800kb in use.

Acid Mitch wrote:The magnetic fields in 720kb and 1.44mb floppies are different densities
If you write data to a 1.44mb disk using a 720kb drive there is a high chance of your data becoming corrupted as the drive can't penetrate the magnetic field of the disk deeply enough .

Okay... that's the answer I was looking for... definitely don't want to ruin the drive. Although I should be getting a damn CF reader and not dealing with floppies. Oh well, they're not so bad. Thank you!

jibber wrote:I can't remember if the old OS (2.02) will do it, since i've used it only for a day, but i know for sure that with the new OS (3.10) you can format HD floppies with the MPC60. It'll format it like a DD floppy and you'll have 793k to use on it.

Why tape? Just format the disks with the MPC.

Really????? Does it say it in the 3.1 manual and is this certain-truth/fact???

If so... Wow! I never knew this! That sounds awesome and another swell reason to upgrade. HD discs are much cheaper and easier to buy than DD discs; half the price if not cheaper. Even all my local electronics stores still stock HD discs.

I actually like floppies... easier to find old projects and stuff.. kinda like 12" vinyl per song. Can't imagine shuffling through 16-32g of CF/SD memory to find certain projects or samples..that'll take forever and that's what my laptop is already for.

fooddude wrote:. Can't imagine shuffling through 16-32g of CF/SD memory to find certain projects or samples.

Neither could Akai. The MPC60/3000 can only read up to 768mb split into 26 30ish mb partitions no matter how big your cf/sd card is.

jibber wrote:I can't remember if the old OS (2.02) will do it, since i've used it only for a day, but i know for sure that with the new OS (3.10) you can format HD floppies with the MPC60. It'll format it like a DD floppy and you'll have 793k to use on it.

Why tape? Just format the disks with the MPC.

It will format them with tape over the right corner. I did this with about 6-7 disks before I posted my questions. Buying more floppies (dd/ds) is much easier than buying a new floppy drive if using HD disks screws up the drive due to some sort of magnetics issue. Worse than that is losing a dope beat due to the disk being corrupt.

fooddude wrote:Really????? Does it say it in the 3.1 manual and is this certain-truth/fact???

Yes it's true. I work with DD floppies, but just to see if it works i formatted a HD floppy disk (in the MPC60) and saved some work on it, turned off the machine and loaded the files. It definitely works... however, what acid mitch said might be true, so take that into account.

I didn't understand it as it will damage the disk drive however, more like the data on the disk might get corrupted sooner than later this way? I don't see how it would damage the drive itself.

Sounds like you have an aftermarket floppy drive not the OEM.

jibber wrote:

fooddude wrote:Really????? Does it say it in the 3.1 manual and is this certain-truth/fact???

Yes it's true. I work with DD floppies, but just to see if it works i formatted a HD floppy disk (in the MPC60) and saved some work on it, turned off the machine and loaded the files. It definitely works... however, what acid mitch said might be true, so take that into account.

I didn't understand it as it will damage the disk drive however, more like the data on the disk might get corrupted sooner than later this way? I don't see how it would damage the drive itself.

jibber wrote: however, what acid mitch said might be true, so take that into account.
.

I'm not the only person who thinks that. There are several references online to it and I've heard same from some techs offline.

Heres a few links:
http://retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/guzis.html

Post 3 here:
http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/show ... hp?t=73266

Look under "compatabilty" here :
http://articles.gourt.com/en/floppy%20disk

jibber wrote:I didn't understand it as it will damage the disk drive however, more like the data on the disk might get corrupted sooner than later this way? .

Correct.

ntalec wrote:Sounds like you have an aftermarket floppy drive not the OEM.

Why? I'm pretty sure my floppy drive is still the original OEM one.

From the OS 3.10 manual:

COMMENT: DS/DD disks are becoming difficult to obtain
because of the greater popularity of high-density disks (HD). If
you can’t find any DS/DD disks, HD disks instead will work fine
in the MPC60. However, if you take an HD floppy that has been
formatted in the MPC60 and try to read it in an MPC3000, the
MPC3000 will tell you that the disk is bad or not formatted. If this
happens, simply cover the HD hole in the lower right corner of
the disk with opaque tape. (This hole is located on the same
edge of the disk as the “HD” emblem, and unlike the other “write
protect” hole, has no sliding window.) This will trick the
MPC3000 into thinking that the floppy is a DS/DD disk and will
then be able to read it.

Hmmmm.... funny thing is, I bought my mint MPC60mk1 from Forat. It's only 2.02. But guess what he gave me and what was inside the drive when I bought it from him? Yup, one of his sample discs, HD disk, with tape over the corner. Makes ya think, if he is fine with using HD floppys, then maybe it's fine.

I think the best bet would be to just give him a ring and ask him straight up; ask if using HD disks with taped-corners will ruin the drive and/or lessen the disk's data-longevity/reliability. If anyone, he would definitely know as he's been using and working on them since they came out and even helped design them.

I am sure he has some 20yo HD disks/drives to tell him if it's still reliable or not.

I have stacks of HD floppies (all bought brand new, not old reused ones) with tape on the corners... I never have problems losing data... however on important songs I have several copies made.. I will save a song to a new floppy and never use it again unless some day one of the other disks screw up (which has not happened) .. I have seen no evidence that HD floppies will ruin a drive after years of doing this and years of using brand new DD disks as well...

In fact, I suspect a disk will screw up once it gets used too much or it is beaten and reused etc.. (worn out) sooner than the tape trick anyways.. I suggest though that when you are not saving or loading anything... eject the disk. Leave it in, but just eject it so it is not fully in... I dont think it really matters on the 60, but I can tell you it does on the 2000... because when you are not using the disk (you loaded your unfinished song and are currently working on it some more) you will see that the light wont be going on, but after a while it starts to spin inside the drive (you can hear it.. even though you are not accessing the disk) well that screws the disk up and next thing you know it is having errors.. if you forget, you will go back to try and save and you might not be able to or you wont be able to reload the disk next time.. so pop in a new disk in that case and resave your currently loaded project again.

my experience with using hd disks in a dd drive is not pleasant. basically you can't be sure that it will work.

a dd drive is a perfect reason to upgrade to an HxC floppy emulator. it seems expensive at first but it's worth it to never have to use floppies again, and have a totally compatible option.