MPC 3000 SCSI Kit for internal & external ZIP/Card reader *F

I know this has been discussed to the death, i spent 1 hour reading/searching and its still not clear what i need to accomplish this.

I have the following:

Card Reader:
Startech 3.5" IDE to Single CF SSD Adapter
http://eu.startech.com/HDD/Card-Readers/Internal/Compact-Flash-Card-to-IDE-Adapter-with-35-Bay-Enclosure~35BAYCF2IDE
Adapter: Yamaha V769970 bridge SCSI/IDE

What cables do I need to connect the reader to SCSI internally but retain functionality of the external Port? I know Forat offers that option and scsiforsampler had a kit for it but the site is gone.

Pls just a simple breakdown for dummies anyone? How is it connected?






*** EDIT *** 24th March 2013


ordered the following parts from http://shop.tekaef.com/

SCSI I Adapter, Slot bracket, external/internal, DB25 female <> IDCS50 male

http://shop.tekaef.com/en/Product/IC%2520170048/SCSI-I-Adapter-Slot-bracket-externalinternal-DB25-female-IDCS50-male

Gender Changer, metal, DB25 male <> DB25 male
Mini Gender Changer

http://shop.tekaef.com/en/Product/IC%2520120011/Gender-Changer-metal-DB25-male-DB25-male

SCSI II / SCSI I HDD Flat Cable, for 2 SCSI HDDs - 0.75m

http://shop.tekaef.com/en/Product/IC%2520130094/SCSI-II-SCSI-I-HDD-Flat-Cable-for-2-SCSI-HDDs-075m




*** EDIT *** 6th April 2013


The above combo (scsi bridge + ide CF) does not work with OS 3.5 BUT it could be that my SCSI bridge is broken.

- I had issues with power, had to improvise to test, if you do not want to solde you will need something to convert the floppy power TO 1 power for CF reader and 1 for SCSI Bridge

depending on CF reader power connector (Molex or small floppy) you will need this:

female floppy power > male floppy power to MOLEX and female floppy power

OR in my case

female floppy power > male floppy power to 2 x female floppy power



still looking for a good solution for this..





*** EDIT *** 1st of May 2013

bought an ACARD 7720U and DID not work with any IDE card reader from addonics or startech - ordered the Delock 91640 and its working.

Connected it exactly like this picture below, external port in the middle of the chain. Longer part of the scsi cable to the card reader and shorter to the MPC external SCSI interface which was turned around and mounted with the bracket.

Both CF and External ZIP work at the same time, remember to turn off termination on External ZIP drive.

I am using the Sandisk Extreme III 1GB CF Card, guess i'm done with this for now! Lets hope it stays working as it does now.

e9000k wrote:What cables do I need to connect the reader to SCSI internally but retain functionality of the external Port? I know Forat offers that option and scsiforsampler had a kit for it but the site is gone.

Pls just a simple breakdown for dummies anyone? How is it connected?

- remove MPC3000 SCSI Jack PCB/DB25 port from rear panel
- connect DB25 connector on SCSI Jack PCB, that was removed from rear panel, to one end of an 50 pin ribbon cable, internally, using a DB25-IDC50 adapter (and probably a DB25 male to DB25 male adapter/gender changer)
- connect the middle IDC50 connectors on the 50 pin ribbon cable to internal SCSI devices (such as your SCSI bridge)
- connect the other end of the 50 pin ribbon cable to a second DB25-IDC50 adapter
- mount the second DB25-IDC50 adapter on the rear panel, in place of the original MPC rear panel SCSI Jack PCB/DB25 port (which is now mounted internally)
- when not using an external device, you must have a SCSI terminator attached to the rear panel SCSI port, or a properly terminated external SCSI device connected

That will sort out the SCSI chain/bus.

Then...

- connect IDE cable from SCSI bridge to the IDE card adapter
- connect power to the SCSI bridge (and IDE adapter if it needs it), using adapters/extenders/splitters to convert the single internal MPC floppy power cable/connector to whatever is required for the internal SCSI and IDE devices



Other posts on here suggest putting the external SCSI port onto the middle of the internal SCSI chain/bus, and having the SCSI chain/bus terminated at each end internally (at the MPC SCSI/D IN PCB and at the last internal SCSI device). This would work fine with no external device connected, but once an external device is connected, you would be breaking the SCSI linear chain/bus specs, by creating a Y configuration, and it may or may not work reliably.

Nice thats a really good breakdown for dummies.. Appreciate you writing this down!

What does a DB25-IDC50 adapter look like for the external port, so where the original adapter was taken off from...

the terminator on the scsi port is this ugly dongle right? Any sugestions which one to ue...

Thanks

These are the adapters that you need, there is an additional DB25 gender changer (DB25 male-male adapter) shown here, which I didn't mention above (originally, have edited it in now) , and which is required as the readily available DB25-ICD50 adapters have a female DB25 connector, you would need two of the DB25-IDC50 adapters, and one of the DB25 male-male adapters...


...the large PC mounting bracket can be removed, for the rear panel DB25 SCSI port replacement, or kept as an internal mounting bracket, for the internal DB25-IDC50 adapter, as shown below.


This shows the connection from the internally relocated MPC3000 factory rear panel SCSI Jack PCB/DB25 SCSI port (the small upside down rectangular PCB), through the DB25 male-male adapter, and the DB25 female to IDC50 adapter, to the internal IDC50 cable...

OK I GET IT! Thats the best guide out there so far... been looking for over an hour before posting here.

Just tell me about the terminator for the original read port, that may be needed but may not be? What does the terminator look like?

The SCSI terminator is an ugly dongle, but due to the location of the rear MPC3000 SCSI port, it would not really be that noticeable amongst the other cables connected to the rear panel.

It looks like a DB25 plug, without a cable coming out the back of it...



You can wire up the internal/external SCSI bus/chain in a Y-configuration, as I mentioned above, and as shown in other posts here, which might then use the internal SCSI bridge for SCSI bus termination, and would not require an external SCSI terminator.

I would not do it like that, as it is outside the SCSI specs, but it may well work in practice. It would be fine for internal SCSI use only, as it would be within the SCSI specs, but once you connect an external SCSI device, and create a y-configuration, rather than a linear bus/chain, it 'might' have problems.

Ok I understand, what does Forat offer as part of the kit? Great condensed information, Thanks..

No probs, I too found it hard to locate a good condensed set of info on the topic when searching previously.

I would be interested to see how Forat does it.


If I had the skill, and time, I would make up a replacement MPC3000 SCSI board, and rear panel SCSI board, to allow for internal SCSI devices more cleanly than all these adapters, and to have auto or manual termination switching without needing an external terminator.

I am surprised this has not been done before, ordered the drive and adapter and assumed that its an easy install with the 50 pin cable like on the s3000xl...

If anyone else has some infos on forat kit or scsiforsamplers kit please let us hear it.

Want to know if there is a clean way to install it without use of termination piece..

These are some diagrams from another thread, they show the way a lot of people here are doing it, which doesn't need an external terminator, which I wouldn't do due to forming a Y-configuration in the SCSI bus/chain, but which seems to be working OK for those that are doing it...

SimonInAustralia wrote:If just using the internal (blue) SCSI bus, which is terminated at both ends, it is good.



Once you add in the external (red) SCSI chain, which also should be terminated, it is bad, it creates a T or Y configuration.




It might work, but it is not the right way to do it.

By simply rerouting the internal SCSI ribbon cable in the photo above, so that the internal Zip/CF drive is in the middle of the internal SCSI ribbon cable, and the external connector is on the end of the internal SCSI ribbon cable, with a terminator on it (whether on the external port or on the last device connected to the external port), it will be the right way to do it.


This is how it should be done, first with no external device connected and a SCSI terminator on the external SCSI port, then with an external SCSI chain and the last device on the external SCSI chain terminated...





You can see from the last diagram that the same parts are used, just the internal SCSI ribbon cable is rerouted to form a linear bus with the external SCSI chain, instead of a T or Y configuration as in the original photo/setup.

You would need an additional DB25 SCSI terminator plug, to terminate the external SCSI connector when not using any external SCSI devices.

And if you want to...



...with left over SCSI IDs for two more devices.

e9000k, I suggest you to read this thread: http://www.mpc-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=161539

This is the thread Simon is speaking about, and you can find there a lot of deep knowledge. Thanks mainly to Simon for sharing his knowledge with us.

I tried to achieve the same as you try, but after that thread and many tries I gave up. I didn't want to do it as everyone, I was trying to stuck the cables under the boards with as less additional cables visible as possible to achieve the most clean and nice mod. However it is nearly impossible due to how MPC3000 is designed. When I found a way to solve one obstacle, second obstacle appeared from solving the first one, when I solved this one, another appeared, again and again in circles. They didn't design 3000 to be modded this way so there is almost no room left for such a connection if you like to have it nice and clean.

Also there is a chance of transfer errors and various malfunctions, as pointed out by Simon.

I copied all my old stuff from floppies and ZIP disks to my PC, replaced the floppy with CF drive, installed DB25-50 adapter in the place of old SCSI board to cover the open hole in the back. Now I'm using CF exclusively, and there is no way I'm going back to floppies / ZIPs. I love it!

This thread should be a sticky, so much knowledge in on page page its crazy!

Few More Questions

- is the OS version an issue when using a CF reader? I am on OS 3.11

- can the CF be read on a mac, ie open the PGM's in MPC Software (that would be crazy lol)

- which of the above options does Foart install does anyone know? Would be surprised if he does the terminator at the back sticking out one..

e9000k wrote:- is the OS version an issue when using a CF reader? I am on OS 3.11

No, 3.11 should be OK.

e9000k wrote:- can the CF be read on a mac, ie open the PGM's in MPC Software (that would be crazy lol)

Yes, the first MPC partition on a disk/card can be accessed from a Mac, so the PGM/SND/etc. files will be available to any Mac applications that they are compatible with.

Thanks Guys, will keep you posted on the result.

Will order the parts necessary today, also which CF Cards are guaranteed to work?

e9000k wrote:This thread should be a sticky, so much knowledge in on page page its crazy!

Feel free to post a link to this in the MPC3000 FAQ/Bible thread, which is a sticky.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=148831