Difficulties compressing kick drums.....

I'm having mad difficulties with my dbx 166 compressor. I'm trying to fatten up my kick drums and there are no settings for decay and attack on this jawn. I can adjust the (GATE) and (OVEREASY COMPRESSION) Threshold / Ratio / and Peakstop Level / Gain.....my kick drums still have too many transients and not enough fat sound......I am wondering if the sound I'm looking for is acheived through good engineering and mastering skills......also a lot of expensive gear......

Were hiphop engineers using Pro Tools back in 95?? Cus I noticed after analyzing a lot of 95 type hiphop tracks in Sound Forge - the kick drums and the snares were all way over compressed and clipped. Curiousity killed the kat.....so they say. Thank you.

DRUMZ.1

mess with the compression until you get the lights triggering fast, with no attack or release, and turn the make up gain up.

Edit:

That will compress the transient as well as the body of the sound closer to full volume, which seems to be what you are after.

I am not sure I understand the definition or usage of "fat". I have not seen the word in my reference materials.

Maybe compression isn't the answer. Compression changes volume by using an amplifier envelope. If altering the volume makes things "fat", then by all means use it.

mpc3000 wrote:I am not sure I understand the definition or usage of "fat". I have not seen the word in my reference materials.

Maybe compression isn't the answer. Compression changes volume by using an amplifier envelope. If altering the volume makes things "fat", then by all means use it.

Are you a Robot???

Nah, he's not a robot, he's sarcastically proving a point.

3000 can be cranky, but only when one of us (myself included) opens our mouth and our keyboard before thinking first. Can't say I blame him.

(I got it, 3000)

I think what he's saying between the lines is to try layering and EQing, and messing with the Attack and Decay on the samples coming out of your MPC, as compression will change only volume. A weak "thin" (read: not fat) kick will only be a louder/quieter weak "thin" kick if he does use compression on it, especially considering the fact that Drumatic sounds rather inexperienced with his compressor and compression in general. Compression is not always necessary in the first place (think about
Hi tek), and if applied incorrectly based on someone else's "Arbitrary" settings, could actually make your kick worse.

I think 3000 is saying "use your ears to listen and your favorite search engine to read up before you ask incredibly vague questions that would require dozens of pages to answer accurately, and even then would only be rough frameworks, as every kick is different and would require a different answer".

A good combination of Eqing, layering, and POSSIBLY the RIGHT KIND of compression, might make your kick more "fat". I think he's saying experiment for yourself, and read up on what you're asking before you ask it, and you should find several good starting points from which you can add your own personal tasty mix of the above methods.

Mix as needed, serve chilled, serves 4.

Well, I was really not trying to be too sarcastic but show that it may hard to get an answer to question that has ill-defined words in it. Particularly words like "fat", "smooth", "good", etc. My definition of these words will not match anyone else's and they would not match each other either.

I know it can be really hard to express in words some acoustic properties. Most of this fixed with formal training. Experience can also help. Being able to properly communicate 'what you are doing', 'what you need', and 'instructions to someone else' is just as much a part of the business as the music itself.

It's not always academic. If I am in a session and the artist tells me to "fatten" up the kick, I can somewhat infer what I know about him/her (musical tastes, previous work, etc) and get a pretty good idea what they need. This is a far cry from an web forum where we know little about each other. This environment requires the language to be a little more formalized and descriptive as we cannot blindly infer our stereotypes on strangers. To make assumptions [stereotypes] about other people or their equipment goes against everything equal rights has been fighting for in the past 40+ years.

He did say to much transient, not enough fat sound, which sounds like the body of the kick is low in volume. Not the most specific description, but a decent explanation.

I think you need a hug dude, you seem real upset lately. You're the cat that gets the most respect up on these forums from me, when you post I listen, and if you need something that I can provide, just holla, my gratitude for the MPC editor is unending.

Please don't be condescending - first of all i was referring the body of the kick - there are major differences between a fat sound or a thin sound. If you look at the wavelength of a professionally recorded kick drum - i'll use pete rock for example, visually describing the kick drums, i'd use the term "FAT" - F, A, motherfukkin' T and say that it's not JUST the EQ on the low end that is creating the shape of the kick but more the sustain of the frequency. I'm sure the low end has a lot to do with it as lower frequency tends to move slower and higher frequencies are sharper.....i'm no engineer for one thing and i'm no moron when it comes to hiphop production - so pretentious geniuses of the mpc-60/3000 boards - I don't give a donkey's ass if you invented the MPC-60 or 3000....I asked a question on these boards because I confide in a professional opinion and perspective. I obviously couldn't locate the information on the internet because i'm constantly being bombarded with results that had nothing to do with my initial search request. THANKS FOR NOT HELPING ME. Next time I'll hit you up on the cell ELMA-.....

Anytime bro.

Well, I was really not trying to be too sarcastic but show that it may hard to get an answer to question that has ill-defined words in it. Particularly words like "fat", "smooth", "good", etc. My definition of these words will not match anyone else's and they would not match each other either.

my tutor who has helped sony to develop the sony betacam format, talks in terms of "warmth" "fat" "smooth" "good" when relating to delegates, students or other professors. and they seem to understand. yoour the first person i have come across tht dont. once again knowledge without wisdom.

I know it can be really hard to express in words some acoustic properties. Most of this fixed with formal training. Experience can also help. Being able to properly communicate 'what you are doing', 'what you need', and 'instructions to someone else' is just as much a part of the business as the music itself.

my good friend studying broadcast engineering, has just hooked up with CNN, not even completed his second year, and he is by far not the most intelligent dude, in broadcast diagnostics and analysis, but because of his ability to communicate on any platform, has landed him this job, he has surpassed others who i believe could touch an ikegami monitor and fix it,


It's not always academic. If I am in a session and the artist tells me to "fatten" up the kick, I can somewhat infer what I know about him/her (musical tastes, previous work, etc) and get a pretty good idea what they need. This is a far cry from an web forum where we know little about each other. This environment requires the language to be a little more formalized and descriptive as we cannot blindly infer our stereotypes on strangers. To make assumptions [stereotypes] about other people or their equipment goes against everything equal rights has been fighting for in the past 40+ years.

incorrect. it shouold be looked upon as a challenge, o learned one. and seeing tht you may possess some kind of intellect, it is useless if you cannot communicate or understand with individuals.
knowledge is onething but its nothing without wisdom and the ability to apply it.

it seems you have upset an individual from your initial response, "is tht positive in anyways at all?" you didnt even have to try.




[/quote]

"it shouold be looked upon as a challenge, o learned one. and seeing tht you may possess some kind of intellect, it is useless if you cannot communicate or understand with individuals. "

I do not think so. The lesson is not to make assumptions and to ask further questions for clarification. I have been doing this long enough to see several incarnations of terms like "fat" and they all had different meanings.

To assume your audience is of the same culture and understanding as yourself is stereotypical and stinks of a racist culture. It is arrogant to think that every is like yourself, talks like you, and understands like you.

Now isn't that kinda a stretch? Helping him without asking for clarification is akin to racism?

c'mon now.

"Now isn't that kinda a stretch? Helping him without asking for clarification is akin to racism? "

That would be a bit harsh, but the message I get from some responders is for me to assume I understand what he means. Am I the only one here that sees something inherently wrong with making assumptions about what someone is saying?

Ask ten people around here what "fat" is and you are going to get ten answers. The most experienced people around here should question the intent since they have been exposed to the most inferred meanings of the word. Lets take another horribly overused word, "warm". I find it horribly ironic that warm was once referred to varying harmonics generated from imperfections in analog components. Now I hear people calling the MPC60 and ASR-10 "warm" all the time and that is about as opposite of the gear spectrum as you can get. If you said that at rec.audio.pro you would get laughed out. So what has happened to the definition of the word. Which interpretation should I use when a complete stranger asks me how to 'warm' something up. Should I be stereotypical and dump them in the newbie bunch and give them a crappy answer or put them in the "experienced" category and deliver a well thought out reply? What's so wrong with saying I do not understand what you mean?

I would love to hang out and discuss this further, but I have more software for the MPC's to finish writing. If someone wants to hit me up one on one in PM, I will empty my full inbox and look for messages.

Nah man, it ain't like that, but you are kinda focusing a bit hard on fat, when he also said he has his transient but the body of the kick is not full.

The 60 is warmer than my s6000, my homebuilt modular is fatter than both

DRUMAT!C_1 wrote:I'm having mad difficulties with my dbx 166 compressor. I'm trying to fatten up my kick drums and there are no settings for decay and attack on this jawn. I can adjust the (GATE) and (OVEREASY COMPRESSION) Threshold / Ratio / and Peakstop Level / Gain.....my kick drums still have too many transients and not enough fat sound......I am wondering if the sound I'm looking for is acheived through good engineering and mastering skills......also a lot of expensive gear......

Were hiphop engineers using Pro Tools back in 95?? Cus I noticed after analyzing a lot of 95 type hiphop tracks in Sound Forge - the kick drums and the snares were all way over compressed and clipped. Curiousity killed the kat.....so they say. Thank you.

DRUMZ.1

You have a compressor and dont know how to use it?


What the heck is the differnce between hiphop from 95 (back in the days?? ) and hiphop from 2005??



You do have ears to listen right? ?