how could I make my pads EMPTY LEVEL? (opposite of FULL LEVE

Im using mpc 2k classic, I need all the pads to be sending the lowest velocity value possible regardless of how hard I hit it. As is, the software makes it impossible the minimum velocity sensitivity is 1%, and the FULL LEVEL disables the use of velocity--->start time. Im willing to modify the pad sensors and I want to no longer have touch sensitivity. Has anyone ever noticed a broken pad that would only output the lowest velocity possible?



if you must know why I want to do this:
Im trying to use the velocity--->start position feature as a way of getting multiple zones, I know it works because after I have a recorded sequence, I'm able to modify the start points of samples via the number in "velocity--->start"
The problem with actually using it though is the FULL LEVEL will make all the those start points back to 0 no matter what, and then the velocity response only goes down to 1%, which is still enough velocity to make my start points unstable.

Then turn off FULL LEVEL gotdammit! Then adjust the velocity so that only dragon punches and spirit bombs are just enough to make a sound from the pads.

But for what you want, get the 500. Pads so stiff that you can drop an axe-heel kick and you're only scratching the surface.

what you are doing is pretty cool but is basically a hack, so you're not going to be able to get it to work 100% like you want.

what i would do is record will full velocity on, or whatever velocity, then go into EDIT and SET VELOCITY for every note to 1 or whatever you want.

it is more programming than playing, but it make all your notes at a set velocity.

of course you will lose velocity sensitivity-> volume if you want to do this as you explained.

No hacks needed - if i understand you correctly, you want the velocity of the pad to control start position but not the volume.

page 102 of the manual:
¥ Velo>Level:
This allows the velocity to control the volume. The larger the value,
the louder the sample becomes with the impact of the velocity.
When this is set to 0, the volume is the same regardless of the velocity.

set to vel>start to 100 and vel>attack to 0 and you should be good to go

its like full level per pad and the velocity will still modulate other parameters. people use this on the mpc60 for the zone play you're after- go into 16 levels and select velocity it should divide your sample into 16.

set to vel>start to 100 and vel>attack to 0 and you should be good to go

right, all this is true, the problem is that even when I have:

velocity--->level: 0\
velocity---->start: variable

the minimum velocity response available is still 1% not 0%, I understand that I can set the the parameter to have velocity have no effect on the level, but since I want to use the velocity response on start position, I need it constant. as is, even when pressing as lightly as possible, ranges between 10 and 16 on the velocity meter. even that small difference can sometimes be up to a whole second of difference in the start position if I have a 22050khz sample.

I'm just so close to having what I want, Im 99% sure there is no route for the 2k classic software there has to be a way to just get it to stop sending velocity messages. I'm looking for all the previous operating systems but I am not hopeful there will be a 0% velocity setting.

I know this has been pretty technical explanation, but I know how to use the software I just want to know if there is anyway to physically disable the touch sensitivity so it sends all 0 values. This would be the most useful for setting the start times manually using the velocity--->start parameter.

mikolo wrote:No hacks needed - if i understand you correctly, you want the velocity of the pad to control start position but not the volume.

page 102 of the manual:
¥ Velo>Level:
This allows the velocity to control the volume. The larger the value,
the louder the sample becomes with the impact of the velocity.
When this is set to 0, the volume is the same regardless of the velocity.

set to vel>start to 100 and vel>attack to 0 and you should be good to go

its like full level per pad and the velocity will still modulate other parameters. people use this on the mpc60 for the zone play you're after- go into 16 levels and select velocity it should divide your sample into 16.

set to vel>start to 100 and vel>attack to 0 and you should be good to go

Thats a neat trick

Full Level sound but with velocity-control of parameters?

Madness!

Harmonj - if you use 16 levels velocity each pad will send a fixed velocity, split across 16 equal divisions. I.e each pad will play predictably from a different bit of the same sample.

Is there a reason why you can't use 16 levels to do what you want?

Also in the MIDI protocol a velocity of 0 is actually considered a note off message- so theres a good reason why no MPC would send that when you hit a pad.


Ill-green . Yeah vel>level is very useful. In fact I very rarely use the full level key. In a pgm I have some pads set like they were at full level and others set up for vel sensitivity.

mikolo wrote:Harmonj - if you use 16 levels velocity each pad will send a fixed velocity, split across 16 equal divisions. I.e each pad will play predictably from a different bit of the same sample.

Is there a reason why you can't use 16 levels to do what you want?

As far as I understand it he want to be able to set a pad to a specific velocity value and since the 16 level function is fixed and you can't edit the value that each pad send its useless in this case.

Harmoncj wrote:
I know this has been pretty technical explanation, but I know how to use the software I just want to know if there is anyway to physically disable the touch sensitivity so it sends all 0 values. This would be the most useful for setting the start times manually using the velocity--->start parameter.

[/quote][/quote]

There is no physical way to hit the pad without sending velocity.

The only way I see how this would work is with aan external device (keyboard / pad controller) that can be programmed that way (send an fixed adjustable velocity value for each pad/key) or if this is not possible on the device itself you could use the software puredata on a computer.

The padcontroller will then send a midinote to the computer, the software will convert the value of the notenumber to an adjustable velocity value and then pass it to the MPC.

You would be able to adjust every pad to the startpoint you like (well not really but one of 127 startpoints on a 5 second sample) but its not very comfortable

peace

peterpiper wrote:As far as I understand it he want to be able to set a pad to a specific velocity value and since the 16 level function is fixed and you can't edit the value that each pad send its useless in this case.

Yeah, this works best on loops cropped to one or two bar's- each 16th or 8th will get its own pad but you still might have to go into step edit to adjust the velocity for hits which aren't precisely on the beat. With just using the MPC that's as close to get to what harmonj wants as far as I know. Sending 0 vel hits from the pads wouldn't solve the problem due to the way MIDI works.

fwiw i use velocity->volume = 0 and variable velocity->sample start all the time on my xl to 'chop' samples. with 16 levels, it gives you nice, repeatable 'chops' right there on all 16 pads. it takes some fiddling with the amount, but it is basically the only way i chop anymore. yes there are limits and its not always predictable, but im into that sort of thing.

as for velocity->volume = 0 still sending SOME velocity - come on, that still can't be that much. you should be able to learn to control it with your playing.
it is an instrument after all.


edit: peter where is that list of times you calculated from the the velocity->sample start setting?

tapedeck wrote:
edit: peter where is that list of times you calculated from the the velocity->sample start setting?

search and you'll find I don't know which thread it was.


peace

peterpiper wrote:

tapedeck wrote:edit: peter where is that list of times you calculated from the the velocity->sample start setting?

search and you'll find I don't know which thread it was.
peace

;p
it is tough to search this site cause terms like 'velocity' 'sample start' 'times' etc get thrown around a lot.

just thought you might have it written down somewhere else.

edit: knew i'd seen it somewhere

peterpiper wrote:The velocity values of the 16 Level functions and the time that it represents are:

Pad01 -> 007 -> 4,513
Pad02 -> 015 -> 3,872
Pad03 -> 025 -> 3,281
Pad04 -> 031 -> 2,888
Pad05 -> 039 -> 2,450
Pad06 -> 047 -> 1,985
Pad07 -> 055 -> 1,625
Pad08 -> 063 -> 1,301
Pad09 -> 071 -> 0,968
Pad10 -> 079 -> 0,722
Pad11 -> 087 -> 0.512
Pad12 -> 095 -> 0,313
Pad13 -> 103 -> 0,181
Pad14 -> 111 -> 0,085
Pad15 -> 119 -> 0,025
Pad16 -> 127 -> 0,000

peterpiper, thanks for all the input, your posts are always informative. I don't know why I didn't think of that before but I have pure data, and a USB MIDI device. I could probably use this to solve the velocity issue and other problems like limited mute assignments. And thanks for the sample start time data in 16 steps, I was trying to figure that out myself, but I got really confused by how the distance between pad 01 to pad 02 is way longer than the distance between pad 15 to 16.

I also wanted to point out for anyone using velocity--->start parameters,
the range of start times is somewhat limited,(especially with 16 steps) but you can fake different lengths by using lower sample rates. samples 44.1khz have only the first 5 seconds but 22.05khz gives you different start times in the first 10 seconds. Or if you wanted, higher sample rates for a decreased range.



and for users of the 2k classic, I have a trick to get more muted notes, (although you probably already have considered this) each pad gets only gets to mute two other pads, but you can get it to mute 6 pads if you use simultaneous mode to trigger two other pads of silent samples with their own assigned mutes. for some reason there has to be a sample on those two other pads so I just use silence. hopefully 6 mutes per pad is enough to work with.

mikolo wrote:
Is there a reason why you can't use 16 levels to do what you want?

yeah the 16 levels is kinda neat but what I want is to have any mix of samples available with selectable start points(even though there are some limits to the amount of start points). I've been doing it already, even with the velocity problem the process overall is making a lot of sense for how I do the drums. it could just be that much better if I could rely on each pad to stay put once I

mikolo wrote:Also in the MIDI protocol a velocity of 0 is actually considered a note off message- so theres a good reason why no MPC would send that when you hit a pad.

good point, I will have to keep that in mind if it can't get this external triggering to work make sure its not a 00 value.

Ill-Green wrote:But for what you want, get the 500. Pads so stiff that you can drop an axe-heel kick and you're only scratching the surface.

I'll have to try it out, seems like a nice thing to have around anyhow, batteries!