live performance sound quality

yo mpc headz

im taking my beats to the streets! well, not really. mostly empty bars and the occasional awesome art gallery haha.

live set up:
mpc 2000xl
mac laptop
behringer 802 mixer
bass guitar
bass amp

Both my akai and computer are going through my behringer 802 mixer, which goes into the sound system wherever i play. my sound is suffering and it is probably the mixer. im losing alot of low end and my snares are CRAZY loud. like spine snapping loud, however most are mixed to my capacity (roughly on the akai, but if playing tracks off my computer they are previously mixed in logic then played off Dj software). might just replace the mixer for an interface, but i want to get youre guys' input on sound quality. checked out a few local stores and most guys are confused by my set-up (stupid guitar center) and ive been scanning through the archived forums on this site (still am) which are kinda daunting. anyone highly recommend using an interface for live settings? im pretty sure this will clear up my sound alot.

every venue and every sound system is going to sound different.

your best bet is to get/use the 8-outputs on the mpc, send kicks to one out, snares to another, hats to another, etc etc....run all those through separate mixer channels, and adjust the mixer channels accordingly.

nogginj wrote:every venue and every sound system is going to sound different.

your best bet is to get/use the 8-outputs on the mpc, send kicks to one out, snares to another, hats to another, etc etc....run all those through separate mixer channels, and adjust the mixer channels accordingly.

hey thanks nogginj. i never thought of using the 8 outs live. i def do it for tracking but setting up for a show would take me longer to set up and i usually only have 10-15 min to set up where i utilize every second. you know time is money when its a busy night at bar/venue. however ill try it at my next gig! just got to set up all the midi necessities. have you ever played live with an interface?

mumkai wrote: have you ever played live with an interface?

yes and i prefer using no computers and an mpc instead.

what are you expecting an 'interface' to do for you to solve this problem? the way i see it, you are either going to be plugging things into the 8-outs, or plugging things into the interface. You are either going to be adjusting sound on the interface, or adjusting sound on the mixer.

Personally, I think the mixer + 8-outs is a better option because all you do is plug in the cables, then you can at any point simply reach over and tweak the mixer with your fingers. adjusting a software mixer live with a single mouse pointer seems like a pain to me.

mumkai wrote:but setting up for a show would take me longer to set up and i usually only have 10-15 min to set up where i utilize every second. you know time is money when its a busy night at bar/venue

so set up in advance.
i'd say the burden is on you to figure out a way to do it faster.
again, my opinion, is there are two ways to do this professionaly.
1) set up your stuff in advance.
2) learn to set your stuff up in 10-15 minutes and be sure it will work.
if you can't do either of the above, i'm not sure i buy the 'time is money' thing.

and again, if you aren't setting up a mixer, you are setting up an interface, so consider what you think 'an interface' is going to gain for you. either way works, but it's up to you to make it work.

just jumping in cuz i've dealt with some dj issues involving the mpc and incorporating some other outboard gear. A short answer (guess) from me would be that your mix on the MPC wasn't done on the same monitoring system that you are DJing on.... listening to mixes on multiple systems will help you find that middle ground. i always cut tracks and took them straight to my car to find out there's NO bass in the mix. or the snare is way low, just stuff like that. so level issues will arise. Also there's a little phenomena out there called the Fletcher-Munson Effect that deals with the human ear's perception of bass freq's at diff levels. So..... u can have mixing issues arise simply from mixing something at a relatively low level and then playing it very loud...

You said ur loosing alot of low so one way this would translate is if you mixed the beat at a really loud level on ur mp and then u went to an art show and wern't playing the track as loud as u mixed it, the Fletcher Munson Effect would then come into play, Precieved Bass would tail off drastically.

but nevertheless. As a DJ i'm guessing you probably don't have enough available ch's on ur mixer to run 8 outs off the mp. if i was mixing tracks live, i'd go absolutely nuts if i had to monitor individual levels of one track across my mixer. It might be something as simple as using unshielded cables (unbalanced 1/4 TRS cables) could be your problem. The Berihnger might be garbage, idk too much about them but id think it could maintain the signal it was given. lemme know if anything sounds accurate or not

thanks guys for the input. great points points you made mastakilla. yeah i listen to my mixes constantly in different places. have 2 sets of monitors (krk rokit 5 and ns 10s). but i also take it to multiple cars. bumps in a scion, sounds like crap in a camry, sounds amazing in my friends old mazda lol. as for live i know most sound systems will sound different, but all in all the behringer im using is pretty cheap and for the most part if im using the mixer route then its most likely going to another mixer. just that chain of mixer out>in main mixer makes me cringe.

nogginj the advice with the 8 outs is useful, but i dont know if could incorporate the 8 outs regularly. i switch around alot of beats and programs throughout my set while using my computer and vice versa, but it might be excessive having multiples channels on a mixer linked to 8 outs. for as many beats/programs im using id spend more time programing midi than getting my set together. also using the computer is a good tool for me because i can only have about 3 or 4 finished beats loaded up so to have a seamless set/good transitions the computer allows to have things go smooth. as for an interface i wasnt talking about a soundcard or anything that comes with a software based mixer, but like an apogee ONE or Onyx Blackjack just solely on sound quality. all i need is two inputs for the mpc and my computer will be running of usb. right now i have 1/8" cable going out of my computer into my berhinger... so think a usb interface could remedy that first.

mumkai wrote:but i dont know if could incorporate the 8 outs regularly. i switch around alot of beats and programs throughout my set while using my computer and vice versa, but it might be excessive having multiples channels on a mixer linked to 8 outs. for as many beats/programs im using id spend more time programing midi than getting my set together.

I can understand that it sounds like a lot of work, but that's a good thing. Like I said, it's up to you to step your game up and put in the amount of work to get the results you want.
Your original post said you had a problem with the way you mixed things not translating properly to another space. Well, the best way to fix a mixing problem is to re-mix it. And the only way you are going to be able to do that is if you have instruments coming to independent channels. No sound card or cable or 'better' mixer is going to allow you to turn just the snare down if it sounds too loud in a club.
When I got my 8-outs, there were a couple nights spent simply re-assigning, converting stereo to mono, etc, solely so I could make sure that all my snares in every beat went to out2, all my kicks to out1, hats to out 3, etc etc...Yea it was a lot of work, yea it was not creative, but it sure has made my life easier now.
One other thing, your comment about 'programming midi' makes me wonder if you're missing some understanding here. We haven't mentioned midi and I don't see how it relates. Do explain if I missed something.

the mpc is midi, correct? if im editing or assigning something on a midi production center i guess midi programming isnt the term. i just see assigning the 8 outs as programming cause like you said it isnt creative, but sorry if my phrasing is confusing. i totally get what youre saying. it def equates to more control over youre entire beat and thus the sound. ill see what i can do for my next show. thanks for your help.

mumkai wrote: if im editing or assigning something on a midi production center i guess midi programming isnt the term.

fair enough guess, but things like output assignment + sound parameters on an mpc are not actually midi. the way it uses midi is to send / receive control data to / from other instruments.
keep us posted on how you end up pulling it off and good luck.