Copy Protection: Dongles, Authorizations, Passwords, and mor

Louie lou wrote:We need a ILOK type of dongle for offline usage. Offline meaning when the REN is not connected to your computer. This will keep the REN from taking unnecessary power hits everytime you feel some creativity creeping in, and be able to take your laptop on the road without your REN. I know thats what the Studio and the latter is for, but who wants to really buy all of these pieces when you already have the most powerful (REN) available.

Id buy a dongle like ilok if it meant being able to use my mpc right now as im away from the studio and bringing it around with me had to stop I dont like the idea of moving it about all the time and if I want to make edits to a song im stumped come on AKAI we need to be able to use the software offline

Ilok cant be cracked so your winning and so are we

JAH wrote:Just pointing out that Pro Tools 10 today uses a dongle. I seriously doubt any company that uses dongles for their products will reverse course and eliminate them.

Waves have but thats not gonna happen here all we ask is scale it down so on the coach when im just mousing i dont need a big or smaller mpc as a dongle to use the software ilok gets around this easy it cant be cracked so the software would remain locked to the user as it is now

Akai could do Ren/Studio owners a flavor by creating a mini-dongle for on the road/portable tweaking.

Like one of those bluetooth things.

This would not be commercially available but by mail to people who already own a Ren/Studio with a serial number and could pack one in with future shipments.

OR,
make them all mail order forcing online registration to get one.

(Its always fun to collect peoples personal information.)

chopchop wrote:

JAH wrote:Just pointing out that Pro Tools 10 today uses a dongle. I seriously doubt any company that uses dongles for their products will reverse course and eliminate them.

Waves have but thats not gonna happen here all we ask is scale it down so on the coach when im just mousing i dont need a big or smaller mpc as a dongle to use the software ilok gets around this easy it cant be cracked so the software would remain locked to the user as it is now

But for every Waves there is a Steinberg, where pretty much their entire software product line requires dongle. Motu products use dongles.

ThobRom wrote:Akai could do Ren/Studio owners a flavor by creating a mini-dongle for on the road/portable tweaking.

Like one of those bluetooth things.

This would not be commercially available but by mail to people who already own a Ren/Studio with a serial number and could pack one in with future shipments.

OR,
make them all mail order forcing online registration to get one.

(Its always fun to collect peoples personal information.)

If a dongle system works you only would limit the sales of it to owners based on registration/ownership if you found it cheaper to have a product specific dongle. I'm sure that's why Propellerheads dongle is licensed from Codemeter and only works on their stuff. It had to have been cheaper than paying iLok which most users would have preferred if a dongle was unavoidable.

Most software over $300 that is iLok will give you one in the box, and many users who have no issue with dongles may already have an iLok. That's where an exclusive dongle sucks. You lose another USB port if you already use iLok or e-Licenser USB.

So if it's dongle or bust I think iLok is the best option, just because it's the most likely one you can use for other stuff.

We'd have to consider Challenge/Response the same as Poll option 2 or 3 so I guess user watermarked .exe/.dmg files are the best I can think of for choice 4 "Other____".

That actually would be ThobRom's premise of Akai making sure it's a registered user but needs no dongle. I imagine various manufacturers "stripe" the files different ways but it's a rarely used alternative copy protection. Celemony and Tone2 update my software that way. They generate a user specific /exe/.dmg file for me to download. Then it checks the unique data against whatever copy protect method unlocks after install. (Tone2 use a unlock key file that has to match only my plugin installer for example.)

Personally I don't like or want any copy protection, even for software only.

The Ren/studio shouldn't have any nonsensical on-line authorisations. The fact we have a massive dongle is enough. So what if it gets cracked - those people weren't going to buy it anyway and they would soon discover the software only is very limited without the tactile feel of the hardware.

labcoats wrote:So what if it gets cracked - those people weren't going to buy it anyway and they would soon discover the software only is very limited without the tactile feel of the hardware.

Not true, hardware MPC owners might be interested for tracking beats in the software, and might not care if they can use it to make beats with, so would not care about the hardware.

Those MPC owners might be on the fence about buying a Renaissance or Studio, waiting to see where the software development goes, waiting to see what street and second hand prices do.


If they did care about the hardware interface aspect...

The Renaissance and Studio are just MIDI control surfaces, sending out MIDI data.

Can't the JJOS send out MIDI data from all front panel controls, or something like that?

Couldn't they be mapped to replace most functions of the Renaissance and/or Studio controllers?

Yes, there's always the chance a 60/3000/4000 owner would only want the conversion operation and would happily just use the software. But I think further down the line they would want to get their hands on the hardware just in case their missing out. Of course there will always be a few who will never buy the Ren or the Studio.
Its my own personal view that Im against all forms of software protection - even a serial number. I buy the software I use. But of course not everyone does I realise that.

I dont know anything about the JJOS - cant comment on that.
In regards the Ren software being controlled from a generic controller. Yes it could, but in my opinion it would always lack the symbiotic relationship between a purpose built hardware/software combo. The Ren controller imo is a lot more than 16 pads and a few knobs and buttons, It really does feel like your working with a hardware MPC - except for the lacking software spoiling it in some areas.

labcoats wrote:I buy the software I use. But of course not everyone does I realise that.

I think that these days, piracy is the default position of most people, this is the accepted norm in our society now, unfortunately.

labcoats wrote:In regards the Ren software being controlled from a generic controller. Yes it could, but in my opinion it would always lack the symbiotic relationship between a purpose built hardware/software combo. The Ren controller imo is a lot more than 16 pads and a few knobs and buttons, It really does feel like your working with a hardware MPC - except for the lacking software spoiling it in some areas.

Yes, a generic controller will not give you the full experience, but it will be a lot better than using a mouse to operate the software.

I think an actual hardware MPC, like an MPC2500, used as a MIDI controller for the MPC Software, should be able to cover most of the MPC controller functionality, and provide a fairly similar user interaction.

I disagree pirate software is the default status. I know to many people in this industry using software they paid for which proves contrary to what your saying. I guess it depends on the crowd you hang out with
Are you a pirate Simon..

No, I'm not.

In the business areas, once you are making money out of using software, there is more of a risk to using pirated software, greater consequences, more chance of someone reporting you.

In the education sector, you can't be seen by students to be using pirated software, and can not risk it being found in an audit, thankfully there often are decent discounts available for the education market.

I am talking about at the consumer level, in society, more in general.

For example, music, movies, TV shows, and software at that consumer end.

In music, the default position is to steal it, using the excuses that it is just the way it is now, musicians have to make money from live shows and merchandise, or the older excuse about standing up against the corporate greed of the record company.

The irony comes when those same people then complain about the high prices of concert tickets.

In movies and TV shows, everything is torrented and watched before official releases, reducing the audience at the official delivery mediums, and therefore the income of the people that invest large amounts of money into those productions.

In software, there is an expectation that everything should be like Reaper, a shareware model, and if not, then the torrents again are rife.

It really is just an unfortunate accepted practice in society now to help yourself to the digital intellectual property of others, because it is so easily distributed to, and accessed from, your home computer, and can be stolen without any consequences.