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What form of copy protection do you prefer?

7
11%
7
11%
27
42%
1
2%
22
34%
User avatar
By JAH Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:05 am
Forum members, there has been plenty of talk about disliking the fact that the MPC Software can't be used without the Ren hardware (hardware acts as dongle). Also in discussion is the method Akai uses to authorize the software (up to 4 authorizations...online/offline activation).

Most software companies have some form of copy protection. Cubase (USB dongle), Logic (password), Pro Tools (USB dongle and serial number), Maschine (online authorization and serial number), Universal Audio (hardware dongle, online authorizations), etc.

I personally would prefer to be able to install the software on as many computers as I like. But have the MPC Ren hardware act as a dongle to enable use of the software.

What are your thoughts/opinions?
Last edited by JAH on Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
By fobedafied Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:11 am
JAH wrote:I personally would prefer to be able to install the software on as many computers as I like. But have the MPC Ren hardware act as a dongle to enable use of the software.



sounds fair. :nod:


either or... not all of the above.


when you are inconveniencing or limiting your paying customers something is wrong with your "authentication system" imo....
By Undertow Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:16 am
I think I would rather have fewer "activated" computers at one time in exchange for being able to utilize the software without a controller. I can't see myself needing to install a piece of software on more than 3-4 systems at any given time. I however can see myself benefiting from using the software without the controller when traveling with a laptop or such. Having to carry a large unit around isn't the same as an iLok which is far less of an inconvenience, in my opinion. I would say something like the NI Service Center comes to mind as a fair trade-off—which I guess qualifies as mostly online registration since you have to do so at least once, even for "offline" registration. So, I chose that one.

This is hypothetically speaking of course.

Regardless, most people will choose "no protection"…within good reason. :wink:
User avatar
By DJ Hellfire Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:24 am
I doubt many people are gonna need to install it on more than 4 computers. But there are plenty of valid uses for running the software without the hardware, especially when on the road.

Also, allowing unlimited amount of computers is how pro tools 7 and 8 got pirated so much. If you had an old interface, you could easily download 7 or 8 and enter a valid password to unlock it. So the software didn't even need to be cracked. So the same password could be use on a billion computers as long as the user had a compatible digi interface. Right now this wouldn't be a problem for Ren since it's on 1.x. . But in the future, if they release a paid 2.0 upgrade, and all you need is a password and hardware to unlock, then anyone that bought a Ren with v1.x can easily download and upgrade to 2.0 for free with a password. This is why a computer amount limit makes more sense than hardware dongling. But it's senseless, and unfair to customers, to have both systems in place.
User avatar
By JAH Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:38 am
I really like the Universal Audio method of copy protection. I can use my interface on any computer I like. But only the plugins that I paid for can be used.

The Ren hardware has serial numbers which apparently is stored in flash rom or firmware. If Akai releases a paid for OS2, they can require the Ren hardware to be updated in order to use the new software.

Or even the JJOS method where a password is generated that will only work on that particular model.

In this day and age, more often than not you will see copy protection. Its been that way for a long time and pretty reasonable to me. I have 3 USB dongles connected to the back of my Thunderbolt display.

And you are right...most people will vote no copy protection which in all likelyhood will never happen...so updated the poll to have up to 2 options.
By dtaa pla muk Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:45 am
^ the jj method would not work well in computer software...people want instant access. jj pws are manually generated and may take a day to get to you...it'd also be really really easy to crack.

--------

everyone please read this.

The evaluation version of REAPER is complete and uncrippled. There are no artificial interruptions or restrictions, and you can save and load projects normally. We believe in giving you a fair chance to make sure that REAPER works correctly with your hardware and suits your workflow.

...

If after 60 days you decide that REAPER is not for you, simply delete it.

If you decide that REAPER is for you, you must purchase a license.


bam. very successful and above all honest model. respects the end user. the more end users, and the more you interact with them, the better your product will be.

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i think REN should do the following:

* implement assignable and complete midi control over the software - all of the screens, fields, parameters, zoom options, etc.

*release the REN software as uncrippled demo as described in the quote above. price it low. allow a huge variety of users to use their existing hardware with the REN software before purchasing.

*offer the REN software as a package without the hardware. obviously, there will be a big benefit to the hardware itself in the audio interface and integrated controls. however, allowing users to use their own hardware dramatically increases your userbase.

let the software shine. open it up. more users = more involved testers with creative investment in their music technology.
User avatar
By Retrofreak Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:38 am
Undertow wrote:I think I would rather have fewer "activated" computers at one time in exchange for being able to utilize the software without a controller. I can't see myself needing to install a piece of software on more than 3-4 systems at any given time. I however can see myself benefiting from using the software without the controller when traveling with a laptop or such. Having to carry a large unit around isn't the same as an iLok which is far less of an inconvenience, in my opinion. I would say something like the NI Service Center comes to mind as a fair trade-off—which I guess qualifies as mostly online registration since you have to do so at least once, even for "offline" registration. So, I chose that one.

This is hypothetically speaking of course.

Regardless, most people will choose "no protection"…within good reason. :wink:


^^^This

The dongle paradigm is crippling the portable functionality of the REN, it needs to go!!
User avatar
By MPC-Tutor Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:35 am
I'm pretty much with Nym on this one, I personally dislike any form of DRM with a passion as it ultimately does nothing but inconvenience real, genuine customers. The whole premise somehow assumes that most people who pirate 'would' have bought it if the cracked copy wasn't available - this is of course an assumption backed up with no evidence whatsoever (and many studies are now showing the opposite is true - pirates tend to buy more stuff - I'll dig out some links later)

Everywhere you look, DRM causes problems only to paying customers - be it online gaming, DVDs, streaming services, music, apps etc. In the meantime, the pirates have already cracked 90% of all DRM products and get a significant better experience for it. The other 10% aren't cracked simply because no one is particularly motivated to crack them. If someone can crack an ipad 12 hours from release, I'm pretty sure that person could crack the MPC Software without too much effort.

As is often the case, all that will happen is that genuine customers looking for more freedom from artificially imposed restrictions will buy the Ren and replace the official software with the cracked version. Or they'll just buy something else. :nod:

DRM is a useless attempt to solve a problem that doesn't exist. IMO, sales are not lost due to pirates, sales are lost because many companies are incapable of connecting with their potential customers. Reaper is a prime example of how a more relaxed attitude leads to highly passionate customers like Nym who go out of their way to promote the product to communities.

Just because 'everyone' is using DRM, it doesn't make it the correct decision.

I used the MPC Software for nearly a year without the hardware, and I can tell you it's a poor experience when you can only control it with a mouse. Horrible. If people want to use the software on it's own, let them, and give them unrestricted use of it. All it will do is make them desire one of the controllers, be it a Ren or a Studio. That's the only way you're going to get 'the full experience'. I mean, isn't that how it's marketed - the fusion of software and hardware for the classic mpc workflow? Doesn't it make a bit of a mockery of the whole product 'model' if they are not prepared to publicly show they are not worried about people using only the software for free?

Seriously, the only people in their right mind using only the software would be using it for one off necessity use like Hellfire suggests.

And genuine customers should be able to do what they want with it. They bought the hardware, let them use use it on as many computers as they wish, they can only use it properly on one computer at a time anyway, as they only have one hardware unit.

As for people who buy the hardware second hand, how is this any different to someone who buys a second hand MPC1000? If the MPC1000 owner told he cannot use his MPC1000 because he didn't pay any money directly to Akai, there would be uproar. Why should it be different rules if someone buys the Ren second hand? Just give them full access to the software. At this point, it's up to Akai to come up with a way to monitise all these new customers - for example, paid support - I think it's completely fair to charge secondhand purchasers for tech support, in fact I believe after a year, Akai should also charge existing customers for tech support, e.g. yearly phone support contract.

Offer new VST instruments, paid upgrades etc. These are all ways to make money without trying to restrict genuine people who did nothing wrong other than want to actually buy your product.
User avatar
By DJ Hellfire Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:18 pm
JAH wrote:The Ren hardware has serial numbers which apparently is stored in flash rom or firmware. If Akai releases a paid for OS2, they can require the Ren hardware to be updated in order to use the new software.





This could be a problem if your hardware breaks after warranty and you buy a second hand model to replace it. The software needs to be completely disconnected from the hardware. People are gonna be getting **** in the future if it stays like this. I can see it already! The software needs to be only connected to the user and 4 of their computers. This is the best way I think. Even an iLok is a pitfa!
By dtaa pla muk Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:15 pm
now the question is whether or not Akai wants to be a trendsetter in this regard. they could really make numerous and powerful allies if they did the right thing here.

but tbh it does really does not look good if they won't even release a changelog with their update. even putting their lowest denominator marketing style aside, this/the activation and dongle issues does not bode well for Akai's support or respect for their new end users. it's truly unfortunate, but never too late to change.

this is the most important conversation going on regarding the REN and Studio these days, in my opinion. it's great that 1.2 is out. it took too long - or at least, it seems that way to the end user because pre-releases and betas were not made available for public test. however, i encourage both users/devs/akai management to take a critical look at these issues and get vocal about it, either in constructive criticism or in support of the existing format.

jah, if you can, please make sure that this thread is seen by the right eyes.
By Louie lou Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:56 pm
We need a ILOK type of dongle for offline usage. Offline meaning when the REN is not connected to your computer. This will keep the REN from taking unnecessary power hits everytime you feel some creativity creeping in, and be able to take your laptop on the road without your REN. I know thats what the Studio and the latter is for, but who wants to really buy all of these pieces when you already have the most powerful (REN) available.