Audio track

JAH wrote:The majority says yes.

I know exactly what the majority says, and expects.

I am asking if that is really required to provide an audio overdub functionality, when maybe audio overdubs can be achieved in the existing sequencer architecture/workflow, with seemingly minimal additions.

The existing sequencer already plays back audio files at positions determined by MIDI notes, how is that any different to what recording an audio overdub would require, or what an audio track actually provides?

SimonInAustralia wrote:

JAH wrote:The majority says yes.

I know exactly what the majority says, and expects.

I am asking if that is really required to provide an audio overdub functionality, when maybe audio overdubs can be achieved in the existing sequencer architecture/workflow, with seemingly minimal additions.

The existing sequencer already plays back audio files at positions determined by MIDI notes, how is that any different to what recording an audio overdub would require, or what an audio track actually provides?

Yes, it is required. And if I am a betting man...it will happen.

Recording audio and adding a MIDI note to playback the audio is a function the Ren already has. This is a far cry from hard disk audio tracks as seen in the MPC 5000 which is what most people expect and want.

JAH wrote:Recording audio and adding a MIDI note to playback the audio is a function the Ren already has.

How do you overdub a vocal take, for example, into an existing sequence?

Can it record a new audio sample, while an existing sequence is playing, so you can sing/play along to the existing sequence, and have it place a MIDI note to trigger that new sample into the existing sequence, so it plays back in the correct location within the sequence, automatically?

This is pretty simple. Hard disk audio tracks is what is needed. Users want to be able to record multiple takes....and 'comp' these takes. No one is interested in anything less than the capabilities found in nearly every DAW available on the market such as Pro Tools, Logic, Nuendo, Cubase, FL Studio, Reaper, Studio One, Reason, Digital Performer, so on and so on.

It's a pretty basic concept.

Yep, I know exactly what audio tracks are in a DAW are.

I am simply suggesting that it should be easy to add an audio overdub functionality to the existing sequencer design, without requiring full DAW audio tracks (with editing of audio track waveforms in the sequencer window, and comping of multiple takes, that people expect from full DAW audio tracks).

The software already plays back audio files at specific locations in the sequencer window, that is the basic functionality of a DAW audio track.

It shouldn't be too hard to add a 'realtime overdub' sample recording mode, that can record audio overdubs while the sequencer is running, automatically placing those audio files onto pads, and automatically placing a MIDI note in the sequencer to trigger the audio file in the correct location within the sequence.

That would be adding a new mode to access functions that already exist, which would be a lot easier than adding audio tracks with waveforms/editing/comping/etc.

Sure everyone expects a full DAW audio track, and everything that goes with it.

But, the sample recording examples in the manual suggest recording vocals as an example...what f'ing use is recording vocals, or any other instruments, unless it can be recorded while the beats are playing, and why can't it automatically be placed in the sequence from where the recording started.

I don't see why you have to argue against it, that is all audio tracks are anyway, and it could be a starting point from where they work towards full audio track functionality later on, or at least it would be more useful than the existing disconnected sample recording and sequencer sections in the meantime.

SimonInAustralia wrote:Yep, I know exactly what audio tracks are in a DAW

There you go then. That is what folks would expect....nothing less. No disrespect. But suggestions to short change it in this regard is not a very good idea. I think users would like Akai to take their time and get it right. There is no rush IMO as you can use it within a DAW which most of us have....and the Ren now shipping with Pro Tools.

JAH wrote:But suggestions to short change it in this regard is not a very good idea. I think users would like Akai to take their time and get it right.

You know how you wanted examples of how you shut down anyone else's ideas and opinions that you do not agree with, or that you do not understand, here is a perfect example. You do this all the time.

You have made it clear that you do not agree with my opinion, now you are just continuing to debate it in an attempt to shut it down completely.

JAH wrote:No one is interested in anything less than the capabilities found in nearly every DAW available on the market such as Pro Tools, Logic, Nuendo, Cubase, FL Studio, Reaper, Studio One, Reason, Digital Performer, so on and so on.

You are making the decision that "no one is interested", but I am interested, so you are wrong right from the start, and I would bet you that if the functionality was there, many others would use it.

I have no problem at all with your opinion that the MPC Software should have DAW style audio tracks.

What I have a problem with is you forcing your ideas an opinions on to others, and totally dismissing other's opinions if you don't agree with them, as you are doing now.


The feature I am asking for is in no way changing the features you are using now.

Why are you continuing to debate and argue against it?

This is not short changing anyone, it is simply improving existing functionality without having to re-write the application to add in waveform editing and comping.

You clearly do not understand what the basic functionality of a DAW audio track is, and how the MPC Software is already performing exactly the same task.

It just needs the sample record function to take place while the sequencer is running, and to drop a MIDI note onto the sequencer to trigger the newly recorded sample at the correct location in the sequence.

This function would not negate any further development towards fully featured DAW style audio tracks.


In your DAW examples above, when did Reason implement audio tracks? At version 6?

Are you willing to wait until version 6 of the MPC Software for fully featured audio tracks to be implemented, when a more basic audio overdub sample recording functionality should be possible with not much more than what is already there?


What if I don't want to use a DAW, I just want to use the MPC Software?

What happened to being able to use the MPC without touching the computer?

Why does the software even need fully featured audio tracks, if you can just use it inside a DAW, you are saying it doesn't need an audio overdub function because you can use it inside a DAW, why then do you need fully featured DAW style audio tracks, you can just use the audio tracks in the DAW?

Totally agree with you.
From where I stand there is little (if anything) I couldnt do with a sampler. Even recorded vocalists directly in to samplers - and many a surprising results can be had from throwing all the vocals in to a sampler and triggering via midi. Ive seen songs entirely transformed for the better in doing that. Good accidents happen as well.

There is little doubt audio tracks will be implemented. I have no problem with that except I believe development of the MPC (essence) will take a back seat because as soon as audio tracks are implemented there will be screaming for 'feature after feature', Few will ever be implemented but Akai will be probably dangle the carrot for as long as they can and drip out a few Daw like features over the next couple of years. But it will take away resources from making this MPC the best sampling/sequencing drum machine around. The Ren will become a jack of all trades, a master of none.

I firmly believe(d) Akai have a real chance here to take the entire MPC concept to a stratospheric level by taking all the best bits of previous MPCs and improving on the fundamental concept. That doesn't mean audio tracks - in fact that will be a cop out

But I cant see it happening for there is more marketing mileage to be had in hyping up the Ren as a daw. Folks are totally dreaming if they think the Ren will ever match the main big Daws out there. The resources required to get the Ren up to anything like the level of Cubase, Logic, Pro Tools is massive. There isnt a local shop to buy code for new features - I'll have a Rewire code please - doesn't work like that. Rewire alone would take a team of at least three programmers 6 - 9 months to code. Thats only one feature!

All the calls to make the Ren a super duper Daw but it uses the same mixer design from the MPC60 midi mixer. There is absolutely no way in this universe, any being could ever use the Rens sequences attached to mixer settings concept to mix and produce finished songs. The idea of it is ridiculous.

So , Akai add in your audio tracks and then get back to work on the actual MPC business, and fix the mixer!

SimonInAustralia wrote:You have made it clear that you do not agree with my opinion, now you are just continuing to debate it in an attempt to shut it down completely.

This thread is/was about audio tracks. Your idea is anything but 'real' audio tracks. There is nothing stopping you from creating a thread with your feature request. But there is no reason to get irate because I disagree with you wanting a crippled version of audio tracks.

Triggering an audio file via MIDI (as opposed to real audio tracks) is what the Ren does and is not ideal especially when doing a lot of audio editing.

It isn't a crippled version of audio tracks, it is a start to get a similar functionality.

Do you really expect that you will get full Pro Tools style audio tracks straight up, with comping of multiple playlists, waveforms on every track that can be zoomed to sample level and edited, etc.?

I just want the sample recording function to allow recording while the sequencer is running, and placing of the samples into the sequencer where they are recorded.

At the level at which the MPC Software is now, that triggering of an audio file via a MIDI event on a sequencer track is exactly what a 'real' audio track in a DAW is doing.

This is the basics of audio tracks, to not have it seems retarded, just like arguing against it, while not understanding it.

JAH wrote:
Adjusting the Track Mixer in one sequence has no impact on the Track Mixer of another sequence.

Audio tracks is much needed. .

You may be thinking of program channel mixer?

Try This:
Load up a drum programme.
Record some drum in track 1 sequence 1
Add in compressor (Shift click to get to the track mixer) and make adjustments to your taste

Copy sequence 1 to sequence 2
Whilst still on sequencer 2 reduced the track 1 volume and re-adjust the compressor so you know its noticeably different form the settings on you previously made to the same track on sequence 1

Now shift between the two sequence and you will hear the volume/compressor settings are not the same despite it being the same drum programme on the same track.

Imagine doing this with multiple plugins inserted across many tracks and multiple sequences. Change one parameter on any track/plugin and you have to do that manually for every track and sequence you have in your song Tell me this is not a crazy **** up mixer? This one major flaw instantly negates any idea the Ren could ever be even the most basic of Daws.


I love the feel and look of this machine. Its has so much potential. But of all the things they could have **** up they did it the most important element for mixing a song entirely in the box. At first I thought it was a bug - a big nasty mother of all bugzzzz.

Streaming hard disk or Ram based audio tracks is what I expect. Pro Tools-styled? How about Cakewalk, Soundforge, Acid, and various other lesser known software applications that records multi-track audio some costing under $100.

Recording an audio file and then placing a note in the sequencer to trigger it is not audio tracks and would not be acceptable.

labcoats wrote:

JAH wrote:
Adjusting the Track Mixer in one sequence has no impact on the Track Mixer of another sequence.

Audio tracks is much needed. .

You may be thinking of program channel mixer?

Try This:
Load up a drum programme.
Record some drum in track 1 sequence 1
Add in compressor (Shift click to get to the track mixer) and make adjustments to your taste

Copy sequence 1 to sequence 2
Whilst still on sequencer 2 reduced the track 1 volume and re-adjust the compressor so you know its noticeably different form the settings on you previously made to the same track on sequence 1

Now shift between the two sequence and you will hear the volume/compressor settings are not the same despite it being the same drum programme on the same track.

Imagine doing this with multiple plugins inserted across many tracks and multiple sequences. Change one parameter on any track/plugin and you have to do that manually for every track and sequence you have in your song Tell me this is not a crazy **** up mixer? This one major flaw instantly negates any idea the Ren could ever be even the most basic of Daws.


I love the feel and look of this machine. Its has so much potential. But of all the things they could have **** up they did it the most important element for mixing a song entirely in the box. At first I thought it was a bug - a big nasty mother of all bugzzzz.

I said what I meant. The MPC Ren is the first MPC with a Track Mixer with Insert FXs. In the past, we used Program Mixers. So no matter which sequence you used the Program in, it will have the same mixer levels and effects. You are confusing this by combining the Track Mixer and the Program Mixer. To see what I am saying...completely ignore the Track Mixer. Route all Pads in Programs to Outputs 1,2. You have now set up the Ren to perform like most hardware MPCs. Add effects in the program as you see fit. Now use this program in multiple sequences. Now when you adjust the effects, volume, pan, etc it is applied to all sequences. Boom..bam!

I acknowledge that some Ren users wants this functionality for Track Mixer. I think this is a good idea as long as it is an option. Because if I am working on 2 sequences and they are unrelated, I don't want the Sequence 1 Track Mixer changing what I am doing on Sequence 2.

People tend to confuse an MPC workflow with a DAW or simply use the MPC one way. An MPC Sequence can be either an entire Song or it can be a building block of a song where you string them together. When using the MPC Sequence as the entire song for linear recording, it performs exactly like a DAW would for MIDI and Plugin tracks. Then having multiple MPC sequences is like have multiple Projects of Pro Tools open. Adjust one Pro Tools Project doesn't impact the others you have open..does it?

For those that want to create multiple short sequences and string them together in Song Mode, then I understand the issue. But it isn't an issue if you use Program Mixer. Or if you do your actually mixing after you convert your Song back into a single Sequence where the mixer levels of Sequence 1 is applied to all other Sequences (typical MPC workflow). But as I pointed out above, it would be a nice feature request if there were a way to link Track Mixer across sequences. But this could be dicey if you don't set up each sequence the same. Because if Seq 1, Track 1 were drums...and Sequence 2, Track 1 were keys...you wouldn't want these two tracks linked.

JAH wrote:Streaming hard disk or Ram based audio tracks is what I expect. Pro Tools-styled? How about Cakewalk, Soundforge, Acid, and various other lesser known software applications that records multi-track audio some costing under $100.

You really like to pick and choose which functions have to compete with other software, and which don't.

Pro Tools is moving to playing back recorded audio from RAM.

Now you want the MPC Software to function as a full multi-track audio DAW, when it hasn't even got a lot of the basics down.

You can't even record a sample while your beats are playing, and have that placed in the sequencer where you recorded it alongside your beats, that is retarded, and really, that is all an audio track is.

JAH wrote:Recording an audio file and then placing a note in the sequencer to trigger it is not audio tracks

But you are wrong, it is an audio track.

That is exactly what an audio track in a DAW is doing.

Please explain what the basic functionality of an audio track is, if not to record an audio file and place a note or marker in the sequencer to trigger it?

SimonInAustralia wrote:

JAH wrote:Streaming hard disk or Ram based audio tracks is what I expect. Pro Tools-styled? How about Cakewalk, Soundforge, Acid, and various other lesser known software applications that records multi-track audio some costing under $100.

You really like to pick and choose which functions have to compete with other software, and which don't.

Pro Tools is moving to playing back recorded audio from RAM.

Now you want the MPC Software to function as a full multi-track audio DAW, when it hasn't even got a lot of the basics down.

You can't even record a sample while your beats are playing, and have that placed in the sequencer where you recorded it alongside your beats, that is retarded, and really, that is all an audio track is.

JAH wrote:Recording an audio file and then placing a note in the sequencer to trigger it is not audio tracks

But you are wrong, it is an audio track.

That is exactly what an audio track in a DAW is doing.

Please explain what the basic functionality of an audio track is, if not to record an audio file and place a note or marker in the sequencer to trigger it?

I am entitled to have an opinion on how I would like to see a product developed that I paid for and use daily. Hopefully, Akai is listening and will implement features that will benefit the greater majority of users.

It really doesn't matter to me whether it is hard disk or RAM based audio tracks especially now that 64 Bit is on the way...which is why I listed both in previous posts. Audio tracks with comping, basic editing, etc will suffice initially. Enhancing the features with additional updates such as audio tarcks which syncs to BPM changes is a plus.