By labcoats
Mon May 06, 2013 1:18 pm
For those that only ever use one sequence, and may not understand the problem do the following.
1: Load up a drum kit
2: Assign the kit to track one, sequence one.
3: Record some drums.
4: Go to track mix and insert a compressor plugin on track one. Adjust compressor
5: Copy sequence one to sequence two
6: Whilst on sequence two adjust the compressor again and reduce the track volume.
7: Now hit the Next Seq button and flick between the two sequences.
As you can hear the plugin parameters and volume are different on both sequences, yet its the same drums. What's wrong with that some of you may ask?
Imagine you construct your arrangement using sixteen sequences containing multiple tracks, and in those tracks you have many processing plugins inserted. If you adjust any plugin parameter, volume or send on any track within any of your sixteen sequences you will then have to manually adjust every single parameter across the other fifteen sequences - on every track within those sequences. Mixing your song using multiple sequences is an impossible task
Even if you only ever use one sequence for your song, you will eventually come up against this problem as the Ren gets more daw like features implemented.
What we need is a standard mixer mode completely detached from sequences.Allowing you to make any mix changes across any sequences and have those changes reflected across the entire song - just as you would with every Daw out there as well as every single analog or digital hardware mixer ever made. This mode should have been implemented, not the 20+ year old MPC60 midi volume mixer which the Rens track mixer is based on. This is not about some fancy esoteric feature. This is a bog standard mixer.
Your support for a ‘standard mixer’ would be appreciated even if you only ever use one sequence.
..............................Addition............................................................................
Before you read any further I felt I should add a little more here to try and help explain why this isnt just a feature request, but an essential function. The Jman who trashes every thread arrived on this one - obviously.
The Rens sequences are directly attached to the track mixer. The model is based on the 20+ year old MPC60 midi mixer which was fine back then for a little midi volume change. But even then the feature was little used because every one used an external console and sent the sounds via the 60’s individual outs. Using multiple sequences was no problem because their mix wasn't changed. Basically the mix wasnt attached to sequences.
A 20+ year old very basic midi volume mixer design and concept is in no way fit for a 21st century MPC which can load VST’s. The Ren essentially gives you the ability to compose, arrange and mix your song entirely within the Ren or in the box as many call it. The BIG new addition/feature to this MPC is precisely its ability to allow you to mix the song with its Daw like features. No other MPC has had this ability - hence why the mixer needed to be detached from sequences.
Don’t forget the Ren is also a performance instrument. It can be a superb performance instrument regardless of genre. The Next seq function wasn’t designed for different songs, as some may claim. It was designed for variations within your song - hence the real time operation to try out different sequences on the fly. The Ren goes a step further allowing you to record those sequence changes using the pads creating a fully arranged song MARVELOUS! - but what a shame the mixer is attached directly to individual sequences.
Labcoats, once you have created your arrangement why dont you just convert to one sequence and then mix the song?
(Important) I do - but many producers compose, and mix at the same time. Its called making it sound like a record as you write it. This is much more common than I think people probably realise. Very few composers today sit and create music in a dry sterile environment. You want to hear how those drums through a compressor, you want to hear reverb on those chords, delay on that synth line etc - all as you write the song. And whilst you do that I will bet anything your tweaking parameters many many times to get the balance right as you compose. I'm assuming everyone reading this does this to some extent.
So, think about composers who compose using multiple sequences. Every tweak on any plugin means going to every sequence/track and manually repeating the process. Even composing like this cannot be done - never mind the mixing aspect. Effectively it makes multiple sequences almost entirely redundant, as well as the next seq function.
I understand the general lack of enthusiasm for this function is probably to most Hip Hop music makers on this forum working with one sequence. However, I am in no doubt you will at some point start investigating the use of multiple sequences - for it surely can open doors to your musical chops, especially if used with Next Seq function to create real time arrangements (go on try it). So whilst the function may not seem crucial to you now, I believe further down the line it will be - especially as the Ren is embellished with more Daw. It needs supporting or it wont happen.
The workaround that would work.
Sending all the Rens sounds to Daw input channels. However nowhere near enough outs.
1: Load up a drum kit
2: Assign the kit to track one, sequence one.
3: Record some drums.
4: Go to track mix and insert a compressor plugin on track one. Adjust compressor
5: Copy sequence one to sequence two
6: Whilst on sequence two adjust the compressor again and reduce the track volume.
7: Now hit the Next Seq button and flick between the two sequences.
As you can hear the plugin parameters and volume are different on both sequences, yet its the same drums. What's wrong with that some of you may ask?
Imagine you construct your arrangement using sixteen sequences containing multiple tracks, and in those tracks you have many processing plugins inserted. If you adjust any plugin parameter, volume or send on any track within any of your sixteen sequences you will then have to manually adjust every single parameter across the other fifteen sequences - on every track within those sequences. Mixing your song using multiple sequences is an impossible task
Even if you only ever use one sequence for your song, you will eventually come up against this problem as the Ren gets more daw like features implemented.What we need is a standard mixer mode completely detached from sequences.Allowing you to make any mix changes across any sequences and have those changes reflected across the entire song - just as you would with every Daw out there as well as every single analog or digital hardware mixer ever made. This mode should have been implemented, not the 20+ year old MPC60 midi volume mixer which the Rens track mixer is based on. This is not about some fancy esoteric feature. This is a bog standard mixer.
Your support for a ‘standard mixer’ would be appreciated even if you only ever use one sequence.
..............................Addition............................................................................
Before you read any further I felt I should add a little more here to try and help explain why this isnt just a feature request, but an essential function. The Jman who trashes every thread arrived on this one - obviously.
The Rens sequences are directly attached to the track mixer. The model is based on the 20+ year old MPC60 midi mixer which was fine back then for a little midi volume change. But even then the feature was little used because every one used an external console and sent the sounds via the 60’s individual outs. Using multiple sequences was no problem because their mix wasn't changed. Basically the mix wasnt attached to sequences.
A 20+ year old very basic midi volume mixer design and concept is in no way fit for a 21st century MPC which can load VST’s. The Ren essentially gives you the ability to compose, arrange and mix your song entirely within the Ren or in the box as many call it. The BIG new addition/feature to this MPC is precisely its ability to allow you to mix the song with its Daw like features. No other MPC has had this ability - hence why the mixer needed to be detached from sequences.
Don’t forget the Ren is also a performance instrument. It can be a superb performance instrument regardless of genre. The Next seq function wasn’t designed for different songs, as some may claim. It was designed for variations within your song - hence the real time operation to try out different sequences on the fly. The Ren goes a step further allowing you to record those sequence changes using the pads creating a fully arranged song MARVELOUS! - but what a shame the mixer is attached directly to individual sequences.
Labcoats, once you have created your arrangement why dont you just convert to one sequence and then mix the song?
(Important) I do - but many producers compose, and mix at the same time. Its called making it sound like a record as you write it. This is much more common than I think people probably realise. Very few composers today sit and create music in a dry sterile environment. You want to hear how those drums through a compressor, you want to hear reverb on those chords, delay on that synth line etc - all as you write the song. And whilst you do that I will bet anything your tweaking parameters many many times to get the balance right as you compose. I'm assuming everyone reading this does this to some extent.
So, think about composers who compose using multiple sequences. Every tweak on any plugin means going to every sequence/track and manually repeating the process. Even composing like this cannot be done - never mind the mixing aspect. Effectively it makes multiple sequences almost entirely redundant, as well as the next seq function.
I understand the general lack of enthusiasm for this function is probably to most Hip Hop music makers on this forum working with one sequence. However, I am in no doubt you will at some point start investigating the use of multiple sequences - for it surely can open doors to your musical chops, especially if used with Next Seq function to create real time arrangements (go on try it). So whilst the function may not seem crucial to you now, I believe further down the line it will be - especially as the Ren is embellished with more Daw. It needs supporting or it wont happen.
The workaround that would work.
Sending all the Rens sounds to Daw input channels. However nowhere near enough outs.
Last edited by labcoats on Tue May 07, 2013 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
