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By LabDog Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:32 am
This new MPC Song mode utilizes advanced Live Sequence Chaining features and is intended to replace "Next Sequence". This is a recording style adopted by other software such as Cakewalk/Roland's MPC like software (Kinectic 2) and Cakewalk's Groove Matrix (Found in Project 5 ver2).

Chaining Sequences together and recording them (as triggered) Live in the MPCs' Song Mode would be amazing for the MPC! First example of this method...



Currently Song Mode in the MPC lets us 'piece' our Sequences together, but not in the Live Chaining manner found in programs like those I mentioned above.

In Kinetic 2 and Project 5 Version 2.5 you can trigger/play your Sequences (called Grooves in these two programs) live while recording the entire Live Performance as a Song.

'Unfortunately no one can simply be told what the Matrix is, one has to see it for themselves' Here’s another example…


The Kinetic Song creation mode and the Project 5 Groove Matrix are Very similar in their functionality, except you can't see all the recorded Patterns (Again called Grooves and recognized as Sequences to MPC users). Instead, they all ‘Combine’ into one editable Linear Song Pattern which is actually pretty cool. You can see this in action in the video above.

It is this Song creation behavior that I find amazing and it would be even more amazing in the MPC. I really think MPC users would fall completely in love with it.

Both of these programs are Old as H&!!, but to this date, their Song Modes Murder both the Current MPC Song mode along with Maschine's Song mode! Next Sequence need not even apply for competition here.

The Groove Matrix is amazing for remixing... if we could have a similarly powerful Song mode mimicking it, the MPC would become a new Legend on top of itself!


Another good way to picture this new concept with the proposed new Song Mode in the MPC can be found in part of the NI Maschine review you guys posted.

Using that video I wanted to help you visualize how the Song Recording or better said (Performance Recording) could work in the MPC.

In this Example from NI Maschine 2.0 Review, at around 6:55, you see the guy triggering the Scenes in a live manner.



The new MPC Song Mode would be recording that live Scene Triggering. Again, much like what we see with the Cakewalk programs shown above. From now on, let’s refer to this new MPC recording mode as MPC R-Mix.

MPC R-Mix would allow you to record all your Sequence triggers, even recording things like Sequence Retriggers.
Now we will even use a pad to start/stop its sequence and create what I call 'Sequence Stops' (or breaks/pauses in the song).

This song mode will even allow for live tracking into the R-Mix Song, such as playing in a Solo instrument, a Riff or other sample or sound we may want to only appear at certain points of our song.

The purpose of this Song Mode is to ignite the user's creative mode! Not only will the current MPC workflow get MPC users into that creative flow, but now the MPC R-Mix will become the user's MUSE... Placing you absolutely into that ZONE that you always want to find yourselves in!

You and your MPC will be as one, with R-Mix encouraging you flip and change your tracks on the fly!

The true benefit of the MPC R-Mix mode is fast song/remix creation; it's essentially a 'how you perform it live is how it'll play back' recording mode for the MPC.


With added deep editing features, the MPC will even let you go back and Remix your R-Mix by dragging and Slip editing your recorded R-Mix pattern events just like you would MIDI events!

MPC user BDRAKE visualizes the concept perfectly and has this to say about it!
BDRAKE wrote:
:hmmm: I see so like using the sequence like a drum hit type of style while recording in song mode. Yep that's dope. We need that. :nod: I mean that's a dope feature, who wouldn't use it? :?



To help visualize the concept further I've provided mockups of the MPC R-Mix Mode

Image
Note the differences in the MPC R-Mix track and the live tracks below it. Also note there is no need to set Bar/Measure lengths here. Instead, as with any linear recording, your R-Mix simply grows as you continue to record.

Use Record to Overwrite a segment or Overdub to Blend in changes to prior R-Mix segments.

Image
LCD Layout view of an R-Mix Sequence Track. Button Mapping is intuitive and deep, with advanced features being accessible via Pages. (Page 1. shown here)

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LCD Layout view of an R-Mix Live Track. (Page 1. shown here)

User ntalec reflects upon the concept and had this to say...
ntalec wrote:It's like firing Clips in LIVE.
This was one of the things people complained about with Maschine and not being able to trigger Scenes like LIVE does Clips.

It doesn't play the sequence it triggers it meaning you can constantly retrigger a sequence based on what you have your quantize set for or freely when set to off.

Think of it more like if you just have samples of your sequences on your 16 pads and are triggering them but instead you would have your actual sequence on the pad.

Next Sequence is kinda an outdated thought process since even Immediate doesn't give you retriggering ability like a Pad Sequencer does.

Kinda surprised Akai missed out on this feature when they went software.


Image

R-Mix also brings a new Pad triggering behavior to the MPC where a Sequence is started by pressing a pad and stopped by pressing the same pad again.

Sequence 'Trigger Modes' All have fast switching modes, via Function keys and perhaps also using Q-Links...

These modes include: Trigger on Next Beat, Sudden/Immediately and Next Bar

The Sequence Sync Mode controls in the following manner:

* Sync by Position (Causes the next Sequence to trigger in position with the previous sequence based on the current Bar)

* Sync by Tempo(Always starts a Sequence from the beginning (First Bar) when triggered)


Finally, the Sequence Latch/Hold option creates the following behavior:

Turned on, causes a Sequence to continue to play when triggered by a Pad

Turned Off, a Sequence will stop immediately when the corresponding Pad is released. Using this mode in conjunction with either Sync mode allows the user to 'retrigger' Sequences on the fly.

All these can remain governed by the MPC swing and quantize settings.


Forum veteran JAH shares his take... here

JAH wrote:I like it. I have a similar idea which would allow you to 'beat juggle' between multiple sequences.


By now I'm hoping you're seeing what a true benefit this feature is to the MPC and to its users... This is indeed a Monster feature for a system like the MPC!

It provides the ability to retrigger the Sequences, fire them like a One Shot, or even use the Pad to start the Sequence, then hit it again to stop it... creating super Hot "PAUSES" in a Song right where they need at appear! It even allows for that linear style recording found in our favorite DAWS!

I want this feature to find its way to the MPC so badly, and I too am amazed it isn't already there.

Based on concept presented here and the Photoshop imagery I've up for you guys, I'd really like you think about what you like about the idea or even what may be missing from the concept.

Akai, MPC R-Mix can seriously help you squelch your competitors efforts, if you're browsing the Forums and find yourselves reading this post, you should seriously look into implementing this! And before 'they' do!!! F5 - "Do It!"
By masada2502 Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:13 pm
great minds think alike I pitched a similar idea to Dan the day I got the 1.5 footage.

this would be epic !

note repeat button to repeat sequences, qlinks to change the glitch or stutter ,even a filter to affect the overall song mode for filter sweeps...dope!!
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By LabDog Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:50 pm
masada2502 wrote:great minds think alike I pitched a similar idea to Dan the day I got the 1.5 footage.

this would be epic !

note repeat button to repeat sequences, qlinks to change the glitch or stutter ,even a filter to affect the overall song mode for filter sweeps...dope!!



Yeah, I like that... I hadn't even considered adding glitch, stutter, and sweep effects over an R-Mix sequence, on Live Tracks yeah, but not R-Mix Seq's. That's deep... Gotta have that work too!

I guess I should have added expandable/collapsible Automation Layers to the R-Seq and Live Tracks for that deeper editing of the recorded Q-Link automations.
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By peteblues Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:39 pm
can you summarize in 3 sentences what you want? :hmmm:
Do you want to be able to trigger program pads in the R-Mix mode as well or strictly do sequence mangling?
If you do want to be able to trigger program pads, would it record to the currently playing sequence or a newly created 'song sequence' ?
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By LabDog Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:31 pm
peteblues wrote:can you summarize in 3 sentences what you want? :hmmm:
Do you want to be able to trigger program pads in the R-Mix mode as well or strictly do sequence mangling?
If you do want to be able to trigger program pads, would it record to the currently playing sequence or a newly created 'song sequence' ?


I'm finding it difficult to whittle the concept down to only a few sentences, but here's the best I've managed thus far.

Ok, to start R-Mix should allow:

Two Modes for pads to control (Sequence Triggering and Live Track Selection)

Sequence pad mode provides
    Live recording of sequence triggering in a linear fashion. (R-Seq Track data treated similarly to MIDI data) The resulting track patterns in the R-Seq track can be edited i.e Dragged/Repositioned within the track, and/or slip edited

Live Track pad mode (uses pads to select tracks) and allows MIDI keyboard controllers to record on exclusive MIDI channels for instruments assigned to the project.

While there's no real need for the pads to trigger instruments/samples here, I can imagine there are those who will want this functionality, so this needs to be a considered functionality in this mode as well.

Live tracks and R-Seq tracks allow Linear style recording of instruments and sequences in an unconstrained manner i.e. no looping, no having to set the length of recording.

New Pad behavior The R-Mix mode should also allow new behavior for pads triggering sequences. Hit pad once to start sequence, hit pad again to stop sequence.

This new behavior allows the recorder to continue recording while triggering pads in all manners mentioned above.



I'm trying my best to prevent information overload with the explanation of this request with its deep operations, but it's unfortunately one of those concepts that requires lengthy explanation on my part and an almost deep meditative focus on your part to truly feel the spirit behind this idea. An idea that I, again, feel is truly revolutionary for the MPC!

Perhaps we could talk more in depth in person (so to speak) so I can really try to convey what this really brings to the table.
By dazastah Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:51 am
How about having track mute and sequence trigger at the same time.....
ie.. touching a qlink will mute/unmute a track(16 qlinks = 16 tracks) Holding shift while touching qlink will solo that track

pads to trigger sequences...
And you can record all this...


Or the ability to assign what each pad and qlink can do......(bottom 8 pads triggger sequences top 8 pads mute/umute tracks..)
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By LabDog Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:10 pm
dazastah wrote:How about having track mute and sequence trigger at the same time.....
ie.. touching a qlink will mute/unmute a track(16 qlinks = 16 tracks) Holding shift while touching qlink will solo that track

pads to trigger sequences...
And you can record all this...


Or the ability to assign what each pad and qlink can do......(bottom 8 pads triggger sequences top 8 pads mute/umute tracks..)



Interestingly, I was just messaging another member here regarding just this...

There are some things we all need to decide on regarding Pad modes under R-Mix.

So far we're talking about being able to trigger/retrigger sequences and record live tracks.

I would think there are those who want to record the things like track mutes or track solos within the sequences.

My thought on this would be to have R-Mix only record the MIDI data of tracks that are actually audible, so Mute and Solo under R-Mix effectively become on/off commands for MIDI exposed to the R-Mix tracks. What do you think?


This was the thought I had. What you're saying may be more efficient and more like expected MPC behavior and may be what we should desire in this mode.
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By LabDog Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:04 am
How about having track mute and sequence trigger at the same time.....
ie.. touching a qlink will mute/unmute a track(16 qlinks = 16 tracks) Holding shift while touching qlink will solo that track


Or, we could ask for another Pad Mode in the R-Mix workflow. This mode could involve borrowing all the functions of the Track Mute mode and placing those into a variant R-Seq mode Let's say Seq Mode II.

Could look something like this:

Image

It would essentially be the same thought I mentioned above, where Pads trigger Mutes and/or Solos to tracks within sequences. Tracks that are heard (in this mode) are recorded, becoming R-Seq Track Clips (Again handled pretty much the same as MIDI).

Here, the R-Mix recorder essentially only records MIDI 'ON'. Muted Tracks are not heard by the recorder during the recording will not be recorded.

Where this comes in handy is for those who create the feel and arrangement of their songs by muting or soloing tracks during the playback. So essentially we end up being able to record live performances such as these...




Essentially, we could simply use Mutes and Solos to Start and Stop MIDI from getting to the R-Mix Recorder, again, recording the performance as heard. What do you think?


Araab Muzik would likely fall in love with R-Mix Live Tracks






edit: The next question I think might come up from using this method, is while It's cool to be able to record an R-Seq by triggering Mutes and Solos within a core sequence, how do we jump between sequences from here, to then record the variations we have there...

Somebody can help me think of a clever way to incorporate that into the layout :smoker:
By labcoats Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:06 pm
Labdog,

You have made a simple enough feature request sound massively complicated. Any newbies reading this thread will run a mile. :shock: :-D

If you stated I want to record all my pattern changes in real time using various modes including Legato mode - which will result in a live, real time, off the cuff arrangement being captured, I think that would have sufficed.
Personally, this is one of my top feature next to global mixer. But before its implemented the mixer needs fixing (Global Mixer) for obvioius reasons.

However, it doesnt need a complete overhaul as you suggest. The next sequence feature just needs some updating to allow for legato pattern changes ie patterns start from when you switch, not from the beginning of the bar. Currently it doesnt do this, when it does it means the Ren will be able to do what your proposing. But what it does do which Maschine doesnt is record your manual pattern changes - Superb!! - BUT the problem is the mixer and of course the way all patterns start from bar 1 which doesnt allow for cool off the cuff moves.
By labcoats Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:10 pm
And Nukai if your listening: :Sigh:

Maschine still cant record internal pattern changes, solos, mutes as a live arrangement. If you can implement before them it would mean the Ren would start appealing to a large section of electronic musicians whom I think your seriously ignoring.
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By LabDog Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:33 am
labcoats wrote:Labdog,

You have made a simple enough feature request sound massively complicated. Any newbies reading this thread will run a mile. :shock: :-D

If you stated I want to record all my pattern changes in real time using various modes including Legato mode - which will result in a live, real time, off the cuff arrangement being captured, I think that would have sufficed.
Personally, this is one of my top feature next to global mixer. But before its implemented the mixer needs fixing (Global Mixer) for obvioius reasons.

However, it doesnt need a complete overhaul as you suggest. The next sequence feature just needs some updating to allow for legato pattern changes ie patterns start from when you switch, not from the beginning of the bar. Currently it doesnt do this, when it does it means the Ren will be able to do what your proposing. But what it does do which Maschine doesnt is record your manual pattern changes - Superb!! - BUT the problem is the mixer and of course the way all patterns start from bar 1 which doesnt allow for cool off the cuff moves.


The thing is, that doesn't actually end up doing everything I'm talking about here. There's still no provision in that idea for recording Solo's, Riffs or other featured parts and it still would lack the flexibility or deeper intricacies that I'm asking for.

With this, there's still no editing whatsoever available with the resulting sequence chains in the Next Seq or Song Mode. R-Seq Tracks, on the other hand , could be edited, i.e. moved, cross faded, slip edited ect. Just like MIDI

Next Seq would also still have no ability to accommodate the 'necessary' Pad Mode operations, thus no option to record the triggering of individual tracks within a sequence and recording that.

There's also the Trigger Behaviors that I requested, as is, the MPC does not have them. For instance, you can hit a pad and start it's pattern playback, but you cannot hit it again and stop that pattern. Events like this are what I want to be able to record as well.

Perhaps all this may sound complexed as lain out, but it was the best I could do.

Also, the request was posed to long time users and even to Akai devs as they would be more capable of grasping how truly different this is from an MPC's usual operation.

This is also why I said, this is a request that you will have to spend a good deal of time studying and near meditating over each aspect of it to really feel what it's all about.

I requested it in this way so I could attempt to help you feel the workflow within the example.

Unfortunately, what I'm asking for just isn't as simple as slapping legato mode into Next Sequence.

I truly hoped many more of the long time users would really focus in on this and feel out where I'm going with it as this could be absolutely amazing and game changing for the first company to implement it.

It's practically like we nearly need to join in a Google Hangout or something to really meet on something like this in lengthy discussions.

I've been told there's a similar feature in the Roland MV, but I think this is stronger than even that.

I really want everyone to talk heavily on this toward understanding it, and even improving the idea as well as it's presentation, so that we can all benefit from what it would bring to the MPC.
Last edited by LabDog on Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:57 am, edited 3 times in total.
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By LabDog Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:36 am
picalo32 wrote:The mv has something kinda like this, where you can assign your patterns to to pads and fire them off in intermediate mode or like the mp's next sequence mode


Yeah, masada2502 was actually explaining this to me, helping me to see how it worked.
By Nubian Mindz Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:19 pm
labcoats wrote:And Nukai if your listening: :Sigh:

Maschine still cant record internal pattern changes, solos, mutes as a live arrangement. If you can implement before them it would mean the Ren would start appealing to a large section of electronic musicians whom I think your seriously ignoring.


I have to second the want for this.

If the Ren could record all of my movements while a sequence is playing that would be tremendous, incredible and mind blowing.

I need this in my life!!!!

I often find myself taking an 8 bar loop and just playing with track mutes/solos/prog editing-cutoff & resonance-lfo's and at the end of it (sometimes recorded to my DAW) I sort of sigh at the disappointment of knowing there's no way I could have recorded the whole performance within the Ren to have it play back all of my live editing.

Implement this alone and the Ren becomes a formidable beast.
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By LabDog Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:15 pm
Bumping this to the forefront!!!!

To Peteblues: This video is a good reference video for thinking on what R-Mix should/would actually do for the MPC.



A major part of this Song mode is its ability to actively record live performance. In the video above, we see the user triggering differing tracks and scenes to help us hear how his song should play out.

With R-Mix, the MPC would be recording everything he triggered, and every change he made during that video; turning it into a linear "Song track" which of course plays back exactly as heard.

This mode would also provide the ability to play in Riffs and Solo's to exclusive tracks which are also linear. This mode would add a Sequence/Track 'Retrigger' capability to the MPC which does not appear to exist currently.

Recording these motions as linear tracks, along with the ability to 'Stop' a Track by hitting the pad that started it once again, would create an amazing way to capture the intended 'feel' of a performance! On top of this, these tracks would remain editable, just as midi would.

This should be the Song mode that the MPC touts, this would make the system even more of a legend than it already is!