Problems with midi feedback loop with JU-06+K-25M and MPC LI

I have problems when I use my Ju-06+K-25M with my MPC Live. I would like to play the keyboard and record the midi notes i play into a track on the MPC, but when I do it seems like there is a midi loop of some kind. It only happens when i´m on the track with the midi channel I use with the JU-06. Has anyone had the same problem, and if you do, how can I fix it?

I just updated to firmware 2.2.2.1 but the same problem.

I know the issue and there is no perfect solution. Other brands use something like a "Recording Monitor", where the loop is interrupted.
My Korg M3 has a loop filter where it allows outgoing Karma signals (the M3 Arp) but filters incoming signals - or vice versa - or both allowed, which causes a loop again

You might get a midi filter or patch box for the returning data if the Juno has no filter implemented. Important is a Note filter of course....
- Example for a filter: http://midisolutions.com/prodrte.htm
- Example for a patch box I bought ages ago: M-Audio Thru 3x8 - easily switching MIDI signals to an empty slot
In both cases - don't forget to switch it back again - it happens to me now and than

Resoe wrote:I have problems when I use my Ju-06+K-25M with my MPC Live. I would like to play the keyboard and record the midi notes i play into a track on the MPC, but when I do it seems like there is a midi loop of some kind. It only happens when i´m on the track with the midi channel I use with the JU-06. Has anyone had the same problem, and if you do, how can I fix it?

I just updated to firmware 2.2.2.1 but the same problem.

You could also buy another Midi Keyboard and do the following.
Midi Keyboard MIDI OUT > MPC LIVE MIDI IN > MPC LIVE MIDI OUT> ROLAND JU 06

I was going to suggest turning local off on, but quick look at the manual shows it doesn't have that ability (crazy)
I'd suggest you sell the K25m and get a Keystep, you can still power both through the usb, you just have to set the JU06 to only transmit and receive through the midi sockets and don't connect the JU06's midi out.

DeaDeus wrote:I know the issue and there is no perfect solution. Other brands use something like a "Recording Monitor", where the loop is interrupted.
My Korg M3 has a loop filter where it allows outgoing Karma signals (the M3 Arp) but filters incoming signals - or vice versa - or both allowed, which causes a loop again

You might get a midi filter or patch box for the returning data if the Juno has no filter implemented. Important is a Note filter of course....
- Example for a filter: http://midisolutions.com/prodrte.htm
- Example for a patch box I bought ages ago: M-Audio Thru 3x8 - easily switching MIDI signals to an empty slot
In both cases - don't forget to switch it back again - it happens to me now and than

While I love hardware, there are things I'm glad to get rid off. No MIDI patch-bays, no sync issues, no Midi filters, no Daisy Chaining, no drifting, and no stack of note books song settings. Thanks goodness for VSTi, Software DAW, and a Powerful Computer.

I had the same issue. Some other the other Roland’s have local off bu I wasn’t able to find a solution on the ju-06 other than powering it with a wall plug and using the actual midi cables.

For the price it was a cool module but Roland kind of drops the ball with these crippling omissions.

Cockdiesel wrote:I had the same issue. Some other the other Roland’s have local off bu I wasn’t able to find a solution on the ju-06 other than powering it with a wall plug and using the actual midi cables.

For the price it was a cool module but Roland kind of drops the ball with these crippling omissions.

Do the knobs and slider send MIDI or are they strictly analogue?

CharlesRandolph wrote:While I love hardware, there are things I'm glad to get rid off. No MIDI patch-bays, no sync issues, no Midi filters, no Daisy Chaining, no drifting, and no stack of note books song settings. Thanks goodness for VSTi, Software DAW, and a Powerful Computer.

Good to hear you are happy (lucky?) with your software solution, Charles. But looking through the MPC forums, I have realized that issues with computers, OSs, drivers and other issues, still keep people from creative work - the reason I have abandoned SW solutions.
Not that there are no hardware issues!!!
I must say since I have the MPCX, issues with this machine is giving me headaches - time I should spend on being creative....

DeaDeus wrote:Good to hear you are happy (lucky?) with your software solution, Charles. But looking through the MPC forums, I have realized that issues with computers, OSs, drivers and other issues, still keep people from creative work - the reason I have abandoned SW solutions.
Not that there are no hardware issues!!!
I must say since I have the MPCX, issues with this machine is giving me headaches - time I should spend on being creative....

Mainly on the sync side. I run a Hybrid Studio so I can work any way I feel like. I don't have many issue with hardware or software, because I'm pretty selective about what I put into my chain. Especially Plug In on the SW side. I don't own thousand of them, because I know I'll never use them.

I believe a nicely powered rig, limited software, limited processors, and solid interface with lots of I/O'S is the key to a stable system. The live and X still have issues and I just think they are trying to cram to many features into the machine. Which inherently causes more bugs and more figuring out instead of creating.

On the hardware side, the tabletop synth, sequencer, and sound modules are all the rage. While I enjoy them, I understand the issues of having lots of outboard gear. Syncing the machines and multi track recording the audio is one of them.

What issues are having? Are they bugs or are you finding out what the machine can't do?

CharlesRandolph wrote:......
What issues are having? Are they bugs or are you finding out what the machine can't do?

My main issue is the way AKAI is handling MIDI.
I am aware that every manufacturer is slightly differently interpreting MIDI, but AKAI should change their methodology for the MPC X (and maybe Live - I do not own it)
Up until MPC X (Live) their machines were sampler/sequencers - end of chain machines. Now it became a centre piece in a studio, controlling as stand-alone machine other hardware - that's how I understand it anyway and AKAI is calling it "standalone music production tool" which indicates exactly this.

The stability if MIDI and missing basic functionality is causing a lot of issues. My opinion is that a lot of synchronization issues are coming from a misinterpretation of MIDI Clock by AKAI.
- The MIDI Clock starts running as soon as you hit the Start key. Due to the "basics of MIDI" a lot of information can be transported in this split second, which causes a slight delay of the Clock. If the clock would be constantly "heart-beating" to the MIDI Out, all connected machines would sync at once.

DeaDeus wrote:

CharlesRandolph wrote:......
What issues are having? Are they bugs or are you finding out what the machine can't do?

My main issue is the way AKAI is handling MIDI.
I am aware that every manufacturer is slightly differently interpreting MIDI, but AKAI should change their methodology for the MPC X (and maybe Live - I do not own it)
Up until MPC X (Live) their machines were sampler/sequencers - end of chain machines. Now it became a centre piece in a studio, controlling as stand-alone machine other hardware - that's how I understand it anyway and AKAI is calling it "standalone music production tool" which indicates exactly this.

The stability if MIDI and missing basic functionality is causing a lot of issues. My opinion is that a lot of synchronization issues are coming from a misinterpretation of MIDI Clock by AKAI.
- The MIDI Clock starts running as soon as you hit the Start key. Due to the "basics of MIDI" a lot of information can be transported in this split second, which causes a slight delay of the Clock. If the clock would be constantly "heart-beating" to the MIDI Out, all connected machines would sync at once.

The MPC has always been the center piece of studios and that stopped after the MPC 4000. As for MIDI CLOCK it's always a good idea to give it 2 seconds before tracking, that way other machines had a chance to catch up.

The way that you want to use the MPC you would have to get the MPC 60. That's the only one I know that sent constant MIDI clock. The power of the MPC was the Low Jitter, Rock Solid Clock, and the ability to push/control lots of MIDI devices. That's why MPC use to stand for Midi Production Center.

However after the MPC 4000, it became more of music production tool. They added internal sounds, 8 track recording and things like that. You may need to add a E-RM Midiclock⁺ Master Clock Source. That will do what you want, no matter the machine.

CharlesRandolph wrote:....
However after the MPC 4000, it became more of music production tool. They added internal sounds, 8 track recording and things like that. You may need to add a E-RM Midiclock⁺ Master Clock Source. That will do what you want, no matter the machine.

Wow - thank you for giving me a good "heads-up" on AKAI machines. The MPC X is my first one, as I used the Yamaha RS7000 for quite a while, and was looking for a more modern replacement.

An external clock requires paper documentation of the correct clock-speed (BPM) of every song - a no-go for me - "too much paperwork is getting lost"
I overcome the Clock sync issue by having a very short empty sequence to sync MIDI and load external machines with program changes etc. before I start the actual song/first sequence.

DeaDeus wrote:

CharlesRandolph wrote:....
However after the MPC 4000, it became more of music production tool. They added internal sounds, 8 track recording and things like that. You may need to add a E-RM Midiclock⁺ Master Clock Source. That will do what you want, no matter the machine.

Wow - thank you for giving me a good "heads-up" on AKAI machines. The MPC X is my first one, as I used the Yamaha RS7000 for quite a while, and was looking for a more modern replacement.

An external clock requires paper documentation of the correct clock-speed (BPM) of every song - a no-go for me - "too much paperwork is getting lost"
I overcome the Clock sync issue by having a very short empty sequence to sync MIDI and load external machines with program changes etc. before I start the actual song/first sequence.

Yes, that's the way to solve it. MIDI is cool because it allow other machines to talk to each other. However, most manufactures still don't play well with each other. Most of them wants people to only use their system.