Sampling a 33/3 RPM record at 45 RPM and then pitch it down

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Re: Sampling a 33/3 RPM record at 45 RPM and then pitch it d

By CharlesRandolph Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:06 am
Caustic Yoda wrote:Ive mixed and mastered a fair amount of vinyl this year, some of my own releases too, the nuances come across still its all part of it, and the finished product sounds dope and well worth the effort of doing everything nicely with good gear, and you dont lose anything going to vinyl if you do it right


You always lose something, when cutting to vinyl. I have a pretty nice collections of original press Jazz Records and I keep them in the best condition possible. Well, last year I had a chance to sit in on remastering session (No Name Drop) were doing. At that session, they were remixing from the original master tapes (They don't last forever) and transferring them to digital.

While there, we all sat back and was amazed at the dynamics of the master recordings. This is with some of the best ears in the industry. Once the stem transfer were complete and before they started to mix, they did an A - B of the CD and First Press Vinyl and everyone was blown away at how much the master tapes had so much more detail.

I can tell you, lots of information is lost when you mix for vinyl. At that session there was 4 different masters mixes. (Wish I stayed for the surround sound mix. :lol: )

1. HD Blue Ray (Most Dynamic)
2. Tape Master
3. For CD (2nd)
4. Vinyl (Least)
5. Archive (DATA)

Nevertheless this is not to tear down Vinyl because I enjoy the sound and I'm a crate digger for the breaks and for the love of the music. I wonder if the OP has tried to sample from CD that was pitched up or 45's that were pitched up?

Re: Sampling a 33/3 RPM record at 45 RPM and then pitch it d

By JVC Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:12 pm
CharlesRandolph wrote:You always lose something, when cutting to vinyl. I have a pretty nice collections of original press Jazz Records and I keep them in the best condition possible. Well, last year I had a chance to sit in on remastering session (No Name Drop) were doing. At that session, they were remixing from the original master tapes (They don't last forever) and transferring them to digital.

While there, we all sat back and was amazed at the dynamics of the master recordings. This is with some of the best ears in the industry. Once the stem transfer were complete and before they started to mix, they did an A - B of the CD and First Press Vinyl and everyone was blown away at how much the master tapes had so much more detail.

I really wish that I was there! (I also wished that you dropped the name!)
I enjoy listening to jazz records as well, and I usually prefer listening from vinyl than CD release (I guess many of Jazz CD releases were not done right... and some reissue CD releases are downright slappy.)
But, I have to admit, big part of listening to original (or versions that were issued closer to the fiest issue) is that I get feeling that I'm listening from the same sourse that were listened back in the day, Kind of like time trip experience! (an example would be that "Kind Of Blue" LP before 1991, before the side A gets speed corrected, and remastered properly.)

CharlesRandolph wrote:I can tell you, lots of information is lost when you mix for vinyl. At that session there was 4 different masters mixes. (Wish I stayed for the surround sound mix. :lol: )

1. HD Blue Ray (Most Dynamic)
2. Tape Master
3. For CD (2nd)
4. Vinyl (Least)
5. Archive (DATA)

Nevertheless this is not to tear down Vinyl because I enjoy the sound and I'm a crate digger for the breaks and for the love of the music. I wonder if the OP has tried to sample from CD that was pitched up or 45's that were pitched up?


I enjoy Hi-res PCM files (24 bit, 88.2KHz or higher resolution audio files), but still, my love of vinyl hasn't changed. (many of my music are not even available in digital format anyway.)
I believe HD Blue Ray uses high-res PCM, correct?

But, I even feel that this is becoming moot point for many popular music releases, because so many of them suffer from loudness war.
For instance, Drake's last album (I happen to get a hold of the CDs), I was shocked how heavily all the songs were processes with compressor. It sounded like mushy to me, like it was recorded from FM radio.
I know it is a hip hop album and supposed to be loud somewhat, but if you listen to A Tribe Called Quest's Midnight Marauders LP (I like how it sounds, both music and mastering job), the difference is night and day.

(I thought Daft Punk's RAM, Bruno Mars' 24K, and D'Angelo's last LP were great sounding LPs. The RAM LP was greatest of the three listed I think. Let me know if I missed other major releases with good mastering jobs.)

Re: Sampling a 33/3 RPM record at 45 RPM and then pitch it d

By CharlesRandolph Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:08 pm
JVC wrote:I enjoy Hi-res PCM files (24 bit, 88.2KHz or higher resolution audio files), but still, my love of vinyl hasn't changed. (many of my music are not even available in digital format anyway.)
I believe HD Blue Ray uses high-res PCM, correct?

But, I even feel that this is becoming moot point for many popular music releases, because so many of them suffer from loudness war.

For instance, Drake's last album (I happen to get a hold of the CDs), I was shocked how heavily all the songs were processes with compressor. It sounded like mushy to me, like it was recorded from FM radio.
I know it is a hip hop album and supposed to be loud somewhat, but if you listen to A Tribe Called Quest's Midnight Marauders LP (I like how it sounds, both music and mastering job), the difference is night and day.

(I thought Daft Punk's RAM, Bruno Mars' 24K, and D'Angelo's last LP were great sounding LPs. The RAM LP was greatest of the three listed I think. Let me know if I missed other major releases with good mastering jobs.)


The loudness definitely stems from the digital recording and the digital listening format. It's just to easy to push those levels up. That is the gift that vinyl gives us. It force the audio to be mixed and mastered at lower levels. That Jazz session was incredible and very informative. During the transfer, they were very careful to change the levels of the mix too much.

That's why the reference play back were important. The mixer during those days would ride the fader, they did not have automation like we have today. The cool thing is this label, kept pretty detailed notes from those session. So getting the mix close to the original approved master was easier.

The re release on vinyl was done very well, they raised the over all levels but not much. On blu ray you can hear the low end of the bass and true top end of the violin. I did get to hear the Dolby Atmos version later on and it's a wonderful experience.

For the Blu-Ray they used PCM, DTS-HD Master Audio, and Dolby TrueHD. They rendered to most formats and re recorded the audio back to master reel. When they archive they go all out. :lol: I even had the opportunity to pull some kicks, snares, hi hats, bass, horns, from the open session. :nod:

It's very different than sampling from record, which is already compressed and running though other gear that compresses it more. To me it's important to have live musicians, because at this point, most people are sampling, the sample, that was sampled, from a sample, that was sampled from the record. :lol:
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Re: Sampling a 33/3 RPM record at 45 RPM and then pitch it d

By Lampdog Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:23 pm
CharlesRandolph wrote:most people are sampling, the sample, that was sampled, from a sample, that was sampled from the record. :lol:

And wanna unknowingly add more mud, compression, efx, etc.
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