MPC X, MPC Live & MPC One Forum: Support and discussion for the MPC X, MPC Live, MPC Live II & MPC One Akai's current generation of standalone MPCs.
By HUBA Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:34 pm
Straker wrote:Yep MPC is better in terms of workflow, sampling, features and also design in my opinion but no way it can compete with synths of Fantom or other workstations.
If they want to enter the arena of workstations, Akai and Air have a lot of work to do and I am not sure they can reach any good level of competition with that cpu.
Don't get me wrong, I like and use Hype a lot, I like it, and also the other synths can have a good use, that's a good level for a sampler but it's still a low level for a workstation.
Even the synths on MC707 are at another level compared to Mpc ones, and Fantom is the top of Roland quality.
That quality cannot be reached with the current hardware power of Mpc.


Depends on your perspective I guess.

An MPC keyboard workstation with a maxed out physical UI is a different beast which targets a different user group than the latest and greatest Fantom.
For one it will be cheaper, but more important is that it will be more compact than a Fantom, so easier to lug around and much, much better ergonomically for combining with a favorite desktop synth or two. Hell I bet lots of existing Fantom users would have loved to be able to pick something like this instead.

So yeah, you probably wont see such a thing much say in churches, but it will be popular in other live settings, particularly in the electronic / hip hop scene and off course in home studios.

I think the one who called it a 2022 ASR was pretty on point.
By Straker Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:40 pm
HUBA wrote:
Straker wrote:Yep MPC is better in terms of workflow, sampling, features and also design in my opinion but no way it can compete with synths of Fantom or other workstations.
If they want to enter the arena of workstations, Akai and Air have a lot of work to do and I am not sure they can reach any good level of competition with that cpu.
Don't get me wrong, I like and use Hype a lot, I like it, and also the other synths can have a good use, that's a good level for a sampler but it's still a low level for a workstation.
Even the synths on MC707 are at another level compared to Mpc ones, and Fantom is the top of Roland quality.
That quality cannot be reached with the current hardware power of Mpc.


Depends on your perspective I guess.

An MPC keyboard workstation with a maxed out physical UI is a different beast which targets a different user group than the latest and greatest Fantom.
For one it will be cheaper, but more important is that it will be more compact than a Fantom, so easier to lug around and much, much better ergonomically for combining with a favorite desktop synth or two. Hell I bet lots of existing Fantom users would have loved to be able to pick something like this instead.

So yeah, you probably wont see such a thing much say in churches, but it will be popular in other live settings, particularly in the electronic / hip hop scene and off course in home studios.

I think the one who called it a 2022 ASR was pretty on point.

Yeah it makes sense.
Not the same quality, but cheaper, lighter and with a faster workflow and at least a standard quality for any purpose.
Like a cheaper bread and butter workstation.
For that they have to solve the very limited polyphony issue and they should make a mod matrix, which is lacking on Mpc.
And if Mpc Tutor is right, it might be a One synth version, so cheaper then a Live synth, a sort of workstation entry level, and that would sell good I guess.
User avatar
By EnochLight Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:39 pm
MPC-Tutor wrote:
SuperKonquer wrote: [I'm] sure that this will have plugs-ins not available on the other hardware.


If they do that then hopefully they will at least offer the option to purchase the extra plugins for other MPC hardware. Making stuff like that permanently exclusive to a particular model for anything other than legitimate technical reasons is generally going to lead to major backlash. .


I am in 100% agreement, and really hope that if they go that route they offer the plugins for purchase for MPC X/Live/One/Force owners optionally. When Force came out, many MPC owners (including myself) were very, very salty about not getting Hype Synth as an option. I would have absolutely bought it for my MPC had they offered it as a separate purchase (thankfully, they finally came around).

MPC-Tutor wrote:So, what kind of pricing do we expect with this? I guess it's hard at this point as we don't know the I/O, it could just literally be an MPC One with a keyboard, in which case I can see how they could price it near the FA-06, which in the UK is approx £900

But this would make it cheaper than an MPC Live 2, and in terms of 'stature' I perceive this as sitting between the Live 2 and the X, so maybe £1250 in the UK ($1500-$1600 USD?)


I can't imagine this being similar in price to the MPC X, as I feel that will remain the "flagship/premium" product. But I do think it will come in higher than the MPC Live II and Force, so probably more expensive than the Live II/Force, but cheaper than the X. :lol: I'm willing to wager between $1600-$2000 USD.
By Straker Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:47 pm
@ Enochlight

If it's 2000 dollars, it will be a failure because with that money you can get a Fantom or a Kronos or Yamaha modx, much more capable for synths with more polyphony and more sound quality.
That idea of opening the platform to 3rd party synth developers, though, could be a winning choice.
By HUBA Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:12 pm
Straker wrote:Yeah it makes sense.
Not the same quality, but cheaper, lighter and with a faster workflow and at least a standard quality for any purpose.
Like a cheaper bread and butter workstation.
For that they have to solve the very limited polyphony issue and they should make a mod matrix, which is lacking on Mpc.
And if Mpc Tutor is right, it might be a One synth version, so cheaper then a Live synth, a sort of workstation entry level, and that would sell good I guess.


Yeah I fear Tutor may be right about that, sadly.

From what I can tell it's a market philosophy thing of the time we're living in and every brand seem to have been taken hostage by those blindly following that philosophy. They say it's difficult to predict the future, but when it comes to electronic music instruments it's numbingly easy. None of the brands seem capable of releasing a complete product that meets more than one specific need at the time at best. Products aimed to handle a broader picture are all prone to fail in some super obvious way it seems. Even when they're told directly what to do they have to somehow make sure it's crappier than necessary or they put out a product that's so similar to what's already out there in buckets that you have to wonder if they are trying to lose money on purpose. Elektron have to be the king in that department, with several products that could have been fantastic had they gone a bit further. I'll still buy things from them but I can't stop thinking how much better they could have done as a company. There are many similar examples of other brands as I'm sure you're all too aware of.

The last time someone had the «vision» it seems to take to make something semi complete we got the Virus TI. That's like what 16 years ago. Still selling for a premium and none of the manufacturers seem to have noticed. And all it is is a glorified 90's multimbral VA with a decent FX section and maxed out polyphony. Today we get overpriced monotimbral VA's with eight voices and two LFO's. Wooh.

IMO the last MPC line is the product that is closest to Virus TI level of completion and hitting a broad demand in the market, but they make some weird decisions, particularly with bypassing basic features like a proper mod matrix and struggle to see how to make the best of it for some reason.

I'll buy the MPC keyboard even if it's the crippled version Tutor is suggesting, but what I really want is to buy something that is going to be a legend, a game changer that everybody wants, and that seems to be the one thing we can be sure nobody will make, even if all it takes is to add a few knobs and OS features that by most people are seen as standard features anyway. They say we're spoiled, but drowning in redundant offerings is just about the opposite when we all know what's possible to put out with ease, both technically and economically, and have been so for 20 years.
Last edited by HUBA on Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
By Lampdog Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:21 pm
KaoticShock wrote:The one major feature that the MODX/Kronos/Fantom Lines are missing is the ability to increase the storage by a vast amount.

Kronos2, I disagree.
By Straker Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:39 pm
HUBA wrote:
Straker wrote:Yeah it makes sense.
Not the same quality, but cheaper, lighter and with a faster workflow and at least a standard quality for any purpose.
Like a cheaper bread and butter workstation.
For that they have to solve the very limited polyphony issue and they should make a mod matrix, which is lacking on Mpc.
And if Mpc Tutor is right, it might be a One synth version, so cheaper then a Live synth, a sort of workstation entry level, and that would sell good I guess.


Yeah I fear Tutor may be right about that, sadly.

From what I can tell it's a market philosophy thing of the time we're living in and every brand seem to have been taken hostage by those blindly following that philosophy. They say it's difficult to predict the future, but when it comes to electronic music instruments it's numbingly easy. None of the brands seem capable of releasing a complete product that meets more than one specific need at the time at best. Products aimed to handle a broader picture are all prone to fail in some super obvious way it seems. Even when they're told directly what to do they have to somehow make sure it's crappier than necessary or they put out a product that's so similar to what's already out there in buckets that you have to wonder if they are trying to lose money on purpose. Elektron have to be the king in that department, with several products that could have been fantastic had they gone a bit further. I'll still buy things from them but I can't stop thinking how much better they could have done as a company. There are many similar examples of other brands as I'm sure you're all too aware of.

The last time someone had the «vision» it seems to take to make something semi complete we got the Virus TI. That's like what 16 years ago. Still selling for a premium and none of the manufacturers seem to have noticed. And all it is is a glorified 90's multimbral VA with a decent FX section and maxed out polyphony. Today we get overpriced monotimbral VA's with eight voices and two LFO's. Wooh.

IMO the last MPC line is the product that is closest to Virus TI level of completion and hitting a broad demand in the market, but they make some weird decisions, particularly with bypassing basic features like a proper mod matrix and struggle to see how to make the best of it for some reason.

I'll buy the MPC keyboard even if it's the crippled version Tutor is suggesting, but what I really want is to buy something that is going to be a legend, a game changer that everybody wants, and that seems to be the one thing we can be sure nobody will make, even if all it takes is to add a few knobs and OS features that by most people are seen as standard features anyway. They say we're spoiled, but drowning in redundant offerings is just about the opposite when we all know what's possible to put out with ease, both technically and economically, and have been so for 20 years.

I don't think a game changer ever existed, I am more into buying different boxes and connect them. I never thought that Mpc could shine for its synths, so I use external ones but I have to admit that with last updates I use Air synths more and more but they never reach the level of Roland Mc707 synths and romplers, for example, which are a stripped version of Fantom full power ones.
So I think this key version is quite useless for me if it's just an Mpc with a keyboard, I already have an Mpc with a midi keyboard.
The point is that you cannot make a synth based box with that cpu, sorry but you cannot make a Synth or Rompler based box with this polyphony and limitations, so I guess it will just be an entry level workstation, a cheap one to use with other boxes.
By HUBA Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:01 pm
Straker wrote:I don't think a game changer ever existed, I am more into buying different boxes and connect them. I never thought that Mpc could shine for its synths, so I use external ones but I have to admit that with last updates I use Air synths more and more but they never reach the level of Roland Mc707 synths and romplers, for example, which are a stripped version of Fantom full power ones.
So I think this key version is quite useless for me if it's just an Mpc with a keyboard, I already have an Mpc with a midi keyboard.
The point is that you cannot make a synth based box with that cpu, sorry but you cannot make a Synth or Rompler based box with this polyphony and limitations, so I guess it will just be an entry level workstation, a cheap one to use with other boxes.


I guess it's a question of definition. When complexity and technological breakthrough features in combination with ease of use is available for normal income people is one. The Ensoniq workstations must have been somewhat game changers in that regard.

I use my MPC Live mostly for drums and basslines and MIDI sequencing and leave the synthy stuff to my Virus already, and this MPC keyboard wont change any of that. For me the main advantage is being able to ditch the MIDI keyboard and combine the MPC keyboard with operating external synths without getting chronic injury from ergonomically impossible working positions. So it's a centerpiece thing for me and I think it works great for that, but 16 Qlink knobs VS 4 would make a huge difference in workflow.
By Straker Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:11 pm
HUBA wrote:
Straker wrote:I don't think a game changer ever existed, I am more into buying different boxes and connect them. I never thought that Mpc could shine for its synths, so I use external ones but I have to admit that with last updates I use Air synths more and more but they never reach the level of Roland Mc707 synths and romplers, for example, which are a stripped version of Fantom full power ones.
So I think this key version is quite useless for me if it's just an Mpc with a keyboard, I already have an Mpc with a midi keyboard.
The point is that you cannot make a synth based box with that cpu, sorry but you cannot make a Synth or Rompler based box with this polyphony and limitations, so I guess it will just be an entry level workstation, a cheap one to use with other boxes.


I guess it's a question of definition. When complexity and technological breakthrough features in combination with ease of use is available for normal income people is one. The Ensoniq workstations must have been somewhat game changers in that regard.

I use my MPC Live mostly for drums and basslines and MIDI sequencing and leave the synthy stuff to my Virus already, and this MPC keyboard wont change any of that. For me the main advantage is being able to ditch the MIDI keyboard and combine the MPC keyboard with operating external synths without getting chronic injury from ergonomically impossible working positions. So it's a centerpiece thing for me and I think it works great for that, but 16 Qlink knobs VS 4 would make a huge difference in workflow.

Yeah I agree, 8 or 16 qlinks would make a big difference, much more then a bultin keyboard since we can already use any midi keyboard we want.
I would say that if they wanna make a good workstation, they should put one more chip only for synths, otherwise we are stuck to a very limited polyphony and stripped down synths from Air legacy of 10 years old plugins.
User avatar
By 64hz Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:38 pm
I think it shows the future is bright for us users. I'm always kinda afraid they are going to announce the next line of mpcs but every time it's just another form factor of what we already got. Which means we might even see a 4.0 one day. :smoker:
User avatar
By Monotremata Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:00 am
HUBA wrote:I guess it's a question of definition. When complexity and technological breakthrough features in combination with ease of use is available for normal income people is one. The Ensoniq workstations must have been somewhat game changers in that regard.


I take it you've never played with a Mirage?
By HUBA Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:34 am
Monotremata wrote:
HUBA wrote:I guess it's a question of definition. When complexity and technological breakthrough features in combination with ease of use is available for normal income people is one. The Ensoniq workstations must have been somewhat game changers in that regard.


I take it you've never played with a Mirage?


Haha! You're right I haven't. I hear they are pretty archaic. In several ways. :)

No I was thinking more like the EPS-16+. Haven't played with that one either, but it looks pretty impressive on paper to be from 1990, and the sequencer in it is always praised for its fast and easy workflow. I actually thought about getting one a year ago, and not only out of curiosity. I needed a compact multitimbral sampling keyboard with a friendly realtime sequencer. I ended up with a Roland FA06 instead, which is OK I guess, but doesn't really sample, and so except for having a bunch of fancy ROM sounds you can say it's superseded by the 30 year older EPS :lol:
By KaoticShock Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:11 am
Lampdog wrote:
KaoticShock wrote:The one major feature that the MODX/Kronos/Fantom Lines are missing is the ability to increase the storage by a vast amount.

Kronos2, I disagree.


Thanks for the correction. It is 62GB of solid state storage. Is it built in or removeable?

(Also, it's $3400, interesting if the MPC Key 61 MSRP is that much)