Trap beats and the state of Hip Hop

No worries neodymium broski. i dont articulate my thoughts very well and it comes across as pushy or rude lol. we actually have similar tastes. I as well came from the jungle & dnb era / scene. I actually find myself reading your posts pretty often.

I honestly dont know what to think about modern rap, one one hand i love boom bap and on another I love BASS music. I have to say though, im not a fan of whats being done lyrically these days this whole racist ass tap dance pattern dudes do.. "wibbidy flibbity flu, shmibbity dibbity doo" it aint right.. it reminds me of the 1800s when they'd make black ppl tap dance that rhythm for entertainment and here people are 124 years later willingly doing it.

kja wrote:I really like how the trap guy gonna gets his beats to sound super luxurious? I guess you would call it.. like futuristic but real regal vibe too.. his beats are different I think. Lots of guys with talent though in that genre if you look past the beats are mostly done by like ten producers for everybody.. and most of them sound the same almost.

Which trap guy? Whose beats are you liking?

I find the term 'beats' in hip hop confusing, as 'beats' for me are percussion sounds in a rhythm, but a beats maker is much more than that, it's the whole groove.

Ultros wrote:...pushy or rude...

Not at all mate, all good.

Beat is just short way of saying/writing instrumental.

B-Wise wrote:Beat is just short way of saying/writing instrumental.

Yeah, in hip-hop terminology, but I'm really referring to the standard meaning of the word beat. The percussive rhythms elements only.

Neodymium wrote:

B-Wise wrote:Beat is just short way of saying/writing instrumental.

Yeah, in hip-hop terminology, but I'm really referring to the standard meaning of the word beat. The percussive rhythms elements only.

I knew what you were referring to, but you said the term in Hip-Hop confuses you.

B-Wise wrote:I knew what you were referring to, but you said the term in Hip-Hop confuses you.

Nah, I understand the difference, but the confusion lays in talking about the beat, when people think you are talking about the beat, but you are actually referring to the beat, not the beat.

How would suggest referring to a trap beat, but not the trap beat?

Neodymium wrote:

B-Wise wrote:I knew what you were referring to, but you said the term in Hip-Hop confuses you.

Nah, I understand the difference, but the confusion lays in talking about the beat, when people think you are talking about the beat, but you are actually referring to the beat, not the beat.

How would suggest referring to a trap beat, but not the trap beat?

I agree, @neodymium, about the strange use of the word ”beat”.
Often, when listening to radio, the radio host can say things like ”… it has such a nice beat …” when they’ve just played a song.
I always think in terms of ”what beat specifically are we talking about? The third beat in bar 27?”
I know that it’s not what they mean, but the meaning is not really clear. And very open for misunderstanding. For a long time I thought people were talking about the specific drum and percussion rhythm. But that’s not quite right either, now is it?
But if it means an instrumental part (one bar? two bars?) then it makes more sense.
Except when there’s vocals.

Very confusing I think …

Maybe because I come a Hip-Hop background, but nobody in Hip-Hop ever mean beat as other than the instrumental part of the song if it has lyrics. If you know that, there no confusion. If someone is talking about the percussive part, they will say the drum pattern or something specific.

B-Wise wrote:Maybe because I come a Hip-Hop background, but nobody in Hip-Hop ever mean beat as other than the instrumental part of the song if it has lyrics. If you know that, there no confusion. If someone is talking about the percussive part, they will say the drum pattern or something specific.

They probably did originally, when they were just sampling beats, but as memory increased and larger parts were sampled, I guess it evolved to mean something ore comprehensive.

I could have said trap drums, but there is more to a rhythmic part than the hat's snare, claps and kicks. Percussion is problematic, because synth drums aren't hit. If it was a band, you'd probably say the rhythm section, being drums, percussion, bass, and maybe rhythm guitar. Bass being a crossover between rhythm and harmony which is what 808 bass drums are doing in that role. Thinking about it, maybe 'Trap Drums' is the closest to what I'm getting at.

Since my posting I watched a video n making drill (US vs UK drill) and noted with the hi hat focus, it's just grab a sample, play with gate time/envelope, and then playing notes across the keyboard, sometimes layering for texture to create movement. I thought about serum/vital synthesizing hats from wavetables, and how hats could be modulating wavetables, filters, all kinds of sh!t. Vital is free. Originally I asked about people on here feel, from a sampling background felt about the beats (drums) when hiphop was about finding the perfect sample. In trap I'm just surprised this isn't being pushed and experimented with.

This is from 95, nearly 3 decades ago, Goldie called what Rob Playford created 'the snake' the movement through sample manipulation and filtering. It's not Trap, but the elements are not so far. 5 mins in.

LOL @Lampdog - I still carry a black book in my bag at all times!! Never know when that itch will strike haha.

@Neodymium - Nah Rob was an Akai guy. S3200, the whole rig used to 'produce' Goldie was in an old Sound on Sound article (DOA folks are all over that kinda shit haha). Rob's studio is what used to be Trident Studios aka the place all of Queen's magic happened. Before that, all the Moving Shadow stuff was in his bedroom hah.

The EMU's didn't really start showing up until a little later, towards the shitty 'tech step' era. When the twisted Optical/Ed Rush style basses started showing up, that was the EIV.

Love my E6400 Ultra but would never put drums in it. The MIDI timing on them goes to complete shit when you start adding up more than a couple tracks (and even layers in a single preset), and NOTHING hits like an Amen, Think or Hot Pants sampled into an S1000. Mine's pretty much my 'bass synth' nowadays hah. Its only got one job to do and it does it soooooo well..

No comment on trap.. But what do I know, I just bought a gold repress of Eric B and Rakim's Paid In Full two days ago so that's where Im at with it..

Yeah, sorry, I did a bit of reading and removed the Emu/Akai comment. In fact I saw that Sound on Sound article.

I happen to know you have a 6400, because you commented on my post about my 6400 Ultra before.

Ah man, Wormhole was just the best thing ever for me in '98. That's was totally my thing. Alien talking basslines, and hypnotic flowing grooves. Even just typing that has my face scrunched up and and my body rocking in my chair. It's still the best for me.

Funny I could have swore I got my Emu earlier, but just googled it's released date. Always kind of felt guilty for blowing my student loan on it, but it wasn't out until after, so If must have been my hard earned cash.

Neodymium wrote:

B-Wise wrote:Maybe because I come a Hip-Hop background, but nobody in Hip-Hop ever mean beat as other than the instrumental part of the song if it has lyrics. If you know that, there no confusion. If someone is talking about the percussive part, they will say the drum pattern or something specific.

They probably did originally, when they were just sampling beats, but as memory increased and larger parts were sampled, I guess it evolved to mean something ore comprehensive.

I could have said trap drums, but there is more to a rhythmic part than the hat's snare, claps and kicks. Percussion is problematic, because synth drums aren't hit. If it was a band, you'd probably say the rhythm section, being drums, percussion, bass, and maybe rhythm guitar. Bass being a crossover between rhythm and harmony which is what 808 bass drums are doing in that role. Thinking about it, maybe 'Trap Drums' is the closest to what I'm getting at.

Since my posting I watched a video n making drill (US vs UK drill) and noted with the hi hat focus, it's just grab a sample, play with gate time/envelope, and then playing notes across the keyboard, sometimes layering for texture to create movement. I thought about serum/vital synthesizing hats from wavetables, and how hats could be modulating wavetables, filters, all kinds of sh!t. Vital is free. Originally I asked about people on here feel, from a sampling background felt about the beats (drums) when hiphop was about finding the perfect sample. In trap I'm just surprised this isn't being pushed and experimented with.

This is from 95, nearly 3 decades ago, Goldie called what Rob Playford created 'the snake' the movement through sample manipulation and filtering. It's not Trap, but the elements are not so far. 5 mins in.

I don't know. It seems like your looking way more into these terms more than how people in Hip-Hop ever uses them. Even tho your right in what beat meant, that's also what causing the confusion when hearing it used in HH.

About the Goldie LP. Are you saying that's where trap came from? I highly doubt that the makers of trap used that LP as a source of inspiration. Either way I never really got into Trap. It all starts sounding the same mainly because of the iconic hi-hat pattern used with Note repeat sounds so robotic & soulless.

Back in the day, this was a solid Drum n Bass release, along with plenty of other great DnB LPs in the mid to late 90's. I guess there might be *some* DnB influence that crossed into Trap, but Drum n Bass has been around long enough to influence the music that influenced Trap/LoFi/etc...

How I clear my mind when im trying to find that next sound that resonates. (video only lasts 2days lame.)

https://streamable.com/cux2b5

Neodymium wrote:Funny I could have swore I got my Emu earlier, but just googled it's released date. Always kind of felt guilty for blowing my student loan on it, but it wasn't out until after, so If must have been my hard earned cash.

You have the 6400 Ultra too right? Those were 1999? The earlier 'classic' E6400 was like 96/97 I think. The OG EIV was 94/95, but it came out all by itself. The E4X and E6400 came later, and then all the Ultras were the end of the road right before 2000 and the big software boom.

Man I wish I could've afforded one then hah. A buddy of mine had some loaded parents and we finally got an ESI-32 to play with in like 96, had it hooked up to an SY85. Had no clue what any of it was about back then and it took us FOREVER to figure out how to just create a preset hah. I knew how to use the sequencer and shit in the Yamaha but that sampler was like a foreign language at the time.