I have to give it to Akai, they are pushing things forward!

B-Wise wrote:To make it even simpler when using drum tracks, you can use separate drum tracks instead of MIDI tracks to MIDI-Send to the main track.

^^ THIS TOO! ^^

40Beatz wrote:To Add to that. It seems like the Content from multiple Programs are still loaded into memory. You just have to Map out individual samples to the pads across all additional Tracks (Kinda Tedious but doable)

Why you doing the tedious way?

jaymack wrote:Or just copy the track!?

Exactly! KISS

EnochLight wrote:

B-Wise wrote:To make it even simpler when using drum tracks, you can use separate drum tracks instead of MIDI tracks to MIDI-Send to the main track.

^^ THIS TOO! ^^

Being a Force user since 2021 got me feeling like an MPC tutor right now...oh wait.

EnochLight wrote:The difference between Programs on 3.4+ is that they are now 1:1 track relation.

Thanks for the reply. So let me see if I understand. Programs created in 2.x will survive the upgrade including effects settings and all, if not routing settings, and the only difference is that if you want the same program on several tracks then you would need to copy and rename it for it to be available for additional tracks?

EnochLight wrote:They work just like any other "plugin" would work in a typical desktop DAW - you assign the instrument to a track, and it occupies that track (hence 1:1 track relation).

So in this context a program is the instrument, meaning you assign program to a track as you would with a plugin and that's it? Only now, for some reason, that program is somehow "banned" from having additional tracks assigned to it? If so then I think I get it. Sort of.

EnochLight wrote:In 2.x, a single Program could have as many tracks as you want assigned to it, and this removal has been criticized by a lot of classic MPC-heads as moving backwards.

I see. Well I've never had any use for that function personally anyway so I guess I'm one of the lucky ones..

EnochLight wrote:In 3.4, if you want multiple tracks assigned to a single Program, you have to create a separate MIDI track and assign that MIDI track to control said Program. Not really hard to conceptualize IMHO.

Actually this is the only thing of what you wrote that I'm sure I didn't understand. Unless you meant:

Create a MIDI track instead of a regular track for each separate track you desire to play the same program (?)

HUBA wrote:Actually this is the only thing of what you wrote that I'm sure I didn't understand. Unless you meant:

Create a MIDI track instead of a regular track for each separate track you desire to play the same program (?)

Correct - in this example you would create 1 Drum Program (which gets its own track), and if you want to have more seperate tracks assigned to the same Drum Program, you would create (as many as you want) MIDI tracks or Drum Program tracks and use MIDI return to control the original Drum Program.

B-Wise wrote:They adopted the Force way of handling tracks & programs. Now on MPC3, the drum/keygroup programs are tied to the track & are independent. Meaning, two drum tracks can't have the same name, even if you copy it.

Thanks! I get it now

B-Wise wrote:Also both tracks will share the same samples from the sample pool, but their track/program parameters edits will independent. Before you could have different tracks share the same program quickly make edits to all the samples any track that have the program. On M3 if you have copies of the same program on different tracks like a kick track & snare track, the edits you make for snare on the kick track won't carry over to the snare sample on the snare track.

Good explanation. Well this is exactly how I would want it to work so no complaints here

B-Wise wrote:You'll have figure out how you want to work with this. There's multiple workarounds:

3-Make copies of a program with & name each track as the sound it use & just ignore the other pads & or, use them & rec them on that track & leave it like that or copy it to the track was set up for that pad/sample then delete it on the track you first recorded it to.

This would be my choice and it makes more sense to me personally and is less confusing than having to watch out for several tracks controlling the same single program with the same file name by mistake.

I can't seem to grasp the MIDI track workaround but that's probably a me problem more than the explanation.

EnochLight wrote:

HUBA wrote:Actually this is the only thing of what you wrote that I'm sure I didn't understand. Unless you meant:

Create a MIDI track instead of a regular track for each separate track you desire to play the same program (?)

Correct - in this example you would create 1 Drum Program (which gets its own track), and if you want to have more seperate tracks assigned to the same Drum Program, you would create (as many as you want) MIDI tracks or Drum Program tracks and use MIDI return to control the original Drum Program.

OK that sounds pretty straight forward. I don't understand the MIDI return part but that's probably because I haven't looked into that aspect yet. (I've been using my Live standalone exclusively with no external gear controlled by it through MIDI)

B-Wise wrote:Yes, PC=Program Change.

I don't get how MPC3 program style would prevent you from using the same outs? Do you mean the same tracks on different seqs?

I never did this so someone could correct me if I'm wrong, but in MPC2 for simplicity you could have the same named tracks in the same order for all Sequences in a live set something simple like 16 tracks total, 4 drum, 4 keygroup, 8 plugins that have dozens of programs assigned to them, that change to the next drum, keygroup and plugin you use in the next sequence. The position, name and routing would remain the same. I don't know how you would do that now that tracks are tied to programs? it would be just one large template, might not work at all.

You might have to adopt a different mindset when it comes to how to structure your tracks. So if you have a kit (say, kick hat snare), one option is to load the kit to a track, record all your stuff to that one track and then explode if you need the separate the tracks. But with the 'drum pads as stems' option you might not even need to, especially as the pad mixer mostly offers the same mixing experience as the channel mixer, so you might be fine keeping things within a single track.

If you do explode, consider moving your track insert FX to a submix then when you explode you still only have a single FX rack across all the exploded tracks (otherwise you'll get three copies of the track FX, so potentially 12 plugin instances).

HUBA wrote:I don't understand the MIDI return part but that's probably because I haven't looked into that aspect yet. (I've been using my Live standalone exclusively with no external gear controlled by it through MIDI)

What Enoc meant was "MIDI Send" - each track has this option in the track settings & can be use to send its MIDI seq data to another track, which is great for layering synth tracks. You can use it internally on a plugin tracks by setting up 1, then create 2 MIDI tracks with the same riff but on different octaves & MIDI send them to the plugin track. Now, the plugin track will play both MIDI tracks riffs on both octaves.

Also, if you have a many different drum tracks/programs you want to test out you can use a dummy drum track with a pattern on the track/grid & in real time while the seq is playing you can use MIDI send on in the dummy track to switch thru the different drum tracks like you could on MPC2. Now, on MPC3 the drum programs aren't hidden in the program pool bc they're now tracks.

Pro tip: I have templates where my ext multi-timbral synths have their MIDI tracks (16, 16, , then the 8 plugins & 8 audio tracks are set up first, then the rest is used for drum/keygroup tracks since I never know how many I'll use. This may not be as important on the MPC, but on the Force with it's 8x8 matrix it's best to keep your tracks divided by 8 to take advantage of the button shortcut to move thru 8 tracks holding Shift+Letf/Right & Shift+Down/Up to move by 8 scenes.

B-Wise wrote:

HUBA wrote:I don't understand the MIDI return part

What Enoc meant was "MIDI Send" - each track has this option in the track settings & can be use to send its MIDI seq data to another track..

Right - typo oops! Thanks B-Wise.

B-Wise wrote:

HUBA wrote:I don't understand the MIDI return part but that's probably because I haven't looked into that aspect yet. (I've been using my Live standalone exclusively with no external gear controlled by it through MIDI)

What Enoc meant was "MIDI Send" - each track has this option in the track settings & can be use to send its MIDI seq data to another track, which is great for layering synth tracks. You can use it internally on a plugin tracks by setting up 1, then create 2 MIDI tracks with the same riff but on different octaves & MIDI send them to the plugin track. Now, the plugin track will play both MIDI tracks riffs on both octaves.

Ah I see. Cool. Might try that when I get the Key 37. There are no plugins on the OS I'm still using with my MPC Live and whenever I've wanted to do something like this I have just used the sample layering function.

HUBA wrote:Ah I see. Cool. Might try that when I get the Key 37. There are no plugins on the OS I'm still using with my MPC Live and whenever I've wanted to do something like this I have just used the sample layering function.

You can also use MIDI Send on drum programs. Set up 2 drum tracks one with samples & a empty track. Have the empty track MIDI Send to the track with the samples & then press the empty track pads & you'll hear the sounds of the main track.

All I want to know is when Akai is going to release they new MPC / Controller that is compatible with the MPC 3. I know it's comin'. LOL

They haven't even finished the current line of machines. Don't hold your breath