Help me understand why samples are doing this...

Hey y'all.

I'm a longtime Ableton and Maschine user and feel super comfortable on those. I'm also good with Elektron machines. The MPC is a brand new approach for me, though, and I'm having trouble understanding the logic behind why the following two things are happening:

-I load a sample to the sample pool of a new project on my Live
-I create a new sequence, track, drum group
-I assign the sample to pad one and set start and end points to taste
-I assign the same sample to a second pad and set those start and end points to taste
-Here's the thing: that also changes the start and end points on the FIRST pad's sample. The only way I can get around this is if I make a copy of the sample in the sample pool. That can't be right, can it? Doesn't that bloat the memory? Also it's a pretty slow workflow to have to create redundant samples for each pad, isn't it?


I also have a different, second thing I can't figure out:
-I record a long sample and record it using pad hold to get it spread around the pads
-I have the program polyphony turned to 16
-There are no pad groups or mute groups activated
-The pads still cut each other off. Why? I can't have a snare ring out, for instance, while I'm keeping a hi hat pulse going. Also, when I clear one of the pads and load a new sample completely unrelated to the original sample I recorded with pad hold, THAT sample gets cut off by the other pads, as if they're in a choke group together, which I don't want. When I create a whole new drum program using the same exact samples, though, I don't have the same issue.

I feel like there's some fundamental, structural logic I'm missing. It's hard to search this answer out in a 200+ page manual, though.

Any ideas?

midilifestyle wrote:Hey y'all.

I'm a longtime Ableton and Maschine user and feel super comfortable on those. I'm also good with Elektron machines. The MPC is a brand new approach for me, though, and I'm having trouble understanding the logic behind why the following two things are happening:

-I load a sample to the sample pool of a new project on my Live
-I create a new sequence, track, drum group
-I assign the sample to pad one and set start and end points to taste
-I assign the same sample to a second pad and set those start and end points to taste
-Here's the thing: that also changes the start and end points on the FIRST pad's sample. The only way I can get around this is if I make a copy of the sample in the sample pool. That can't be right, can it? Doesn't that bloat the memory? Also it's a pretty slow workflow to have to create redundant samples for each pad, isn't it?


I also have a different, second thing I can't figure out:
-I record a long sample and record it using pad hold to get it spread around the pads
-I have the program polyphony turned to 16
-There are no pad groups or mute groups activated
-The pads still cut each other off. Why? I can't have a snare ring out, for instance, while I'm keeping a hi hat pulse going. Also, when I clear one of the pads and load a new sample completely unrelated to the original sample I recorded with pad hold, THAT sample gets cut off by the other pads, as if they're in a choke group together, which I don't want. When I create a whole new drum program using the same exact samples, though, I don't have the same issue.

I feel like there's some fundamental, structural logic I'm missing. It's hard to search this answer out in a 200+ page manual, though.

Any ideas?

For question number one

Question #2
Make sure your program mode is set to Poly not mono.

Every MPC does that, its normal. Just copy the sample to pad2 and change its name. If its Drum1 on pad1 then you should name it Drum2 for pad2.

J.O.BEATS wrote:Question #2
Make sure your program mode is set to Poly not mono.

Thanks for responding. It is set to poly, still acting mono.

The problem with the cutt-off is because you've let the mpc automatically create a program for you. Create the program yourself, assign you samples and there won't be any cut offs.

zangetsu01 wrote:The problem with the cutt-off is because you've let the mpc automatically create a program for you. Create the program yourself, assign you samples and there won't be any cut offs.

Can you not re-define this stuff in parameters/settings at any point tho?

Ill-Green wrote:Every MPC does that, its normal. Just copy the sample to pad2 and change its name. If its Drum1 on pad1 then you should name it Drum2 for pad2.

So you have to treat every pad and sample relationship as unique? You can't have different start/end/pitch etc on different pads using the same sample file as reference?

Sounds kind of like Op1 way of using sample files. Shame it isn't the Elektron sample reference method from OT guess it isn't that big a deal in real life practise but still kind of clunky.

callofthevoid wrote:

zangetsu01 wrote:The problem with the cutt-off is because you've let the mpc automatically create a program for you. Create the program yourself, assign you samples and there won't be any cut offs.

Can you not re-define this stuff in parameters/settings at any point tho?

For some reason it's not possible when doing this. I've tried changing the the mute group settings but for some reason it wont work. (I must say this was in 1.9.6, I have yet to test it in 2.0).

should report this as a bug.

[/quote]

For some reason it's not possible when doing this. I've tried changing the the mute group settings but for some reason it wont work. (I must say this was in 1.9.6, I have yet to test it in 2.0).

should report this as a bug. [/quote]

Should maybe update to v2 before assessing this kind of stuff. Could all be OK/different

callofthevoid wrote:
Should maybe update to v2 before assessing this kind of stuff. Could all be OK/different

Already updated to 2.0 just didn't test this. Just don't know on what version you are experiencing this problem. I asumed that because we're in the X/Live section you are experiencing these problems with 2.0. That's why figured that it wasn't adressed yet.

callofthevoid wrote:

Ill-Green wrote:Every MPC does that, its normal. Just copy the sample to pad2 and change its name. If its Drum1 on pad1 then you should name it Drum2 for pad2.

So you have to treat every pad and sample relationship as unique? You can't have different start/end/pitch etc on different pads using the same sample file as reference?

Sounds kind of like Op1 way of using sample files. Shame it isn't the Elektron sample reference method from OT guess it isn't that big a deal in real life practise but still kind of clunky.

No ignore Ill-Green, he's still in legacy MPC mode

If you want a single 'reference' file assigned to different pads each with different start and end points, then you can go ahead and assign them to the pads then go to SAMPLE EDIT > PROGRAM and edit unique start and end points for each pad (well, for each layer). This way the reference file remains untouched.

Remember that you have to set 'SLICE' from 'All' to 'Pad' before you can edit independently in 'PROGRAM' editing mode. I'm not in front of my MPC atm, but I believe Akai have removed pad start/end from prog edit in the MPC Software computer GUI and shifted it into SAMPLE EDIT. Not sure if it's still accessible via PROG EDIT in the hardware.

Alternatively you can do this all via CHOP using non destructive slices.

MPC-Tutor wrote:No ignore Ill-Green, he's still in legacy MPC mode .

Legacy mode

If its like that, then MPC Live is gonna be a portable MV

Ahh I figured it out. In the program edit's modulation page for each pad, all the pads are set to mute group 32 even though they don't appear to be in any mute group via the mute group mode (the one found under the main menu page). There are multiple places to set this functionality, apparently.

I also figured out the answer to number one: editing the sample using the graphical editor on the hardware changes the parameters of the original sample file itself, like editing a sample in audacity on a computer (but non-destructive). In order to change the start points for each pad you either have to use chop mode or adjust the start points in the program edit pages (under one of the several pages for "sample"). This does not give you a way to graphically edit the start point on the waveform. It's making the same changes, though, that you make via "chop", as chopping will also change the start points found in the program edit -> sample pages. So in other words you don't have to make multiple copies of your sample or rename it or anything.

MPC-Tutor wrote:

No ignore Ill-Green, he's still in legacy MPC mode

If you want a single 'reference' file assigned to different pads each with different start and end points, then you can go ahead and assign them to the pads then go to SAMPLE EDIT > PROGRAM and edit unique start and end points for each pad (well, for each layer). This way the reference file remains untouched.

Remember that you have to set 'SLICE' from 'All' to 'Pad' before you can edit independently in 'PROGRAM' editing mode. I'm not in front of my MPC atm, but I believe Akai have removed pad start/end from prog edit in the MPC Software computer GUI and shifted it into SAMPLE EDIT. Not sure if it's still accessible via PROG EDIT in the hardware.

Alternatively you can do this all via CHOP using non destructive slices.

Oh I just typed out my "I figured it out" before I saw your reply. Thanks! That's a more succinct way of explaining it, I think.

I also wrote my "I figured it out" while not at my machine, so for anyone else trying to figure out the same thing, hopefully one or both of those responses make sense haha